Intelligent Energy Share Discussion Threads

[filster] 18/11/2016 13:14

Most, if not all Trades are matched but guess it depends on whoever placed the order first - seller or buyer.

Fingers massively crossed for Monday!!! Hopefully they are going to display some excellent figures which should see the share price rise a step or two. Can't see it going bananas, unless something crazily good happens which doesn't seem to be in the mix based on past announcements.

Downward trend looks like it is slowing to a halt.

[ibug] 18/11/2016 12:57

AT LAST SOME NEWS ON THE WAY----lets hope the results are accompanied with commercial deal news or at least a trading update.

There will be a conference call for analysts and investors at 09:00 on the morning of the results. To register for details please contact Charlotte Horner at Tulchan Communications via [e-mail].

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 12:38

RNS out. Preliminary results out on Monday. Typical IEH ... they really don't milk RNS do they. Really quite a "sober", old-fashioned company!!

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 12:35

Sorry, I meant MMs paying over the bid for shares if they're not buys misrepresented. Ibug, even if Apple haven't gone for the tiny, embedded HFCs in smartphones, I CAN imagine companies like Motorola and ICOM going mad for the technology. Everything needs batteries but too often, once the batteries are dead, if you're not able to recharge or replace them, you're stuck .... BOD DID say there had been a LOT of interest in the drones and auto after dieselgate .... surely the military applications of the tech used in IEH's iphone in other portable tech is massive and, as far as I know, IEH are absolute, by MILES, leaders in that field and probably have the patents to prove it.

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 12:30

Looks like either buys are being listed as sales or people are buying above the bid .... yet, I have seen no evidence of a big buy for ages. Anyone else seen one?

[ibug] 18/11/2016 12:24

Dean spot on mate----the U.S. military have had an armoured SUV Hybrid designed powered by H2. It is considered more stealthy, quiet, with a much longer range. It may even have a water splitter onboard making refuelling less of a problem

Also, government projects with Naval Ships is quite likely to happen. Support vessels with H2 power/ batteries could refuel themselves; improving military logistics.

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 12:13

Norbus, it's hell trying to pick the bones out of this. We know IEH actually made a profit in 2012. Anyone know why? Anyone know why the 4 quid odd brokers' targets were so far off the mark? We know IEH can reveal little or nothing about a lot of what they're working on. If someone discovered Maplins were selling hydrogen powered drones for £10,000 now, would we be able to trace any IEH involvement? Even if a drone manufacturer used a different HFC company to power its drones, that company may still have taken some of IEH's tech and run further with it or in a different direction than IEH's drone partners. IEH would still make money from any of their patents used by competitors (and vice-versa).

Military applications tend to happen before consumer applications. GSM and GPS were designed for military use first (as far as I know ... correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyone on here with military experience who knows how big an issue the weight soldiers carry is and how much electronic gear they have to power these days?

Headcams, radios, gps, trackers, torches, phones .... it all needs power ..... if a bettery is exhausted, is the soldier obliged to carry it around until it can be recharged? Not very efficient!! ... but if all the batteries can be constantly recharged with HFCs whilst in the field .... does IEH's iPhone run for about 7 times longer on hydrogen then a normal iphone? What would doing the same to a soldier's kit allow soldiers to do? Interesting stuff ...

[ibug] 18/11/2016 12:02

Seaports are going to dopt H2 as a source of power.

Nuvera Fuel Cells--On November 10, 2016, 100 government officials, terminal operators, environmental advocates, and technology solutions providers met at the Port of Los Angeles to discuss how the use of hydrogen in the nation’s seaports can dramatically reduce toxic air pollutants and greenhouse gas emissions. The Port of LA is the busiest in the nation and the 9th largest in the world. It was an ideal setting for a workshop convened by the California Hydrogen Business Council to explore how hydrogen and fuel cells solutions at ports can address some of the most pressing environmental issues of today.

Ports provide unique opportunities for targeted air quality improvement efforts. Most of the equipment used for container handling, such as cranes, reach stackers, forklifts, and rail freight cars, are diesel powered. Ports are therefore the source of concentrated emissions of diesel particulates, nitrogen oxides (NOx), sulfur dioxide (SO2), and carbon monoxide, as well as greenhouse gas emissions (primarily CO2). What’s more, since ports are often adjacent to disadvantaged communities, populations at the lower economic end of the scale bear a disproportionate burden of the health effects of the freight movement associated with global commerce.

For these reasons, policy at the local, state, and federal levels is focusing on how to reduce emissions from port activity. At the workshop, speakers from the Ports of LA and Long Beach, the California South Coast Air Quality Management District, the EPA, the U.S. Department of Energy, the California Air Resources Board (ARB), and the California Energy Commission described how the adoption of hydrogen fuel cell technologies would advance the missions of their respective organizations. Heather Arias, Chief of the Freight Transport Branch at the California ARB, identified her agency’s three primary environmental goals:


Cut air toxins that cause health risks to the general population

Attain state and federal air quality standards

Mitigate climate change

Fuel cells address these objectives directly by offering zero-emissions, high-efficiency equipment that can be powered by hydrogen produced partly or entirely from renewable feedstocks.

[norbus] 18/11/2016 11:23

Maybe the Haji Hedgie on the board who locked into IEH for a £30m conv ln stock saw the military angle.

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 09:36

Well, I think most reputable companies pay their patent licenses as fighting a petent infringement is pricey. I see what you mean but I don't think it's a problem. It does strengthen the argument that even if IEH went bust, their patent portfolio, their stakes in SMILE and other JVs plus sole ownership of Essential Energy gives the company a pretty decent residual value if the assets were sold off. I wonder if IEH have nice hidden income from UK based arms manufacturers like BAE .... I can't see military gear using batteries unless they absolutely have to for much longer. One of IEH's latest patents covers what seems to be an update to the UPP. I can imagine soldiers in forward positions either having electric powered kit that either has HFCs embedded in them of they all have their ruggedised update of the UPP and a load of hydrogen cartridges to recharge their kit in the field. On top of that, someone in the platoon might have the responsibility for carrying a small HFC for powering electric kit anywhere in the field ..a bigger version of the soldiers "personal" HFC power source.

The reference to US forces not being able to get enough batteries in Iraq is, I presume, the US military has been addressing over the recent years.

[filster] 18/11/2016 09:18

I guess it's then down to their lawyers chasing the fact that people have infringed their patents - but that's part of the company which I'm not familiar with.. it could even be outsourced.

The sector is getting going, but IEH needs money 'now' - well in the next 12-15 months.

ETA : Cheers for your earlier post btw! good reading and info.

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 08:39

Try and read all the stuff I posted since about 4am UK time .... I think it's important ... why we get so few RNS, why IEH should be getting a piece of the action from most HFC deployments world-wide through their patents.

Unless it's my imagination, there has been quite a large spike in deployment of HFCs world-wide in the last year and as the owner of patents covering some pioneering HFC tech, I see the income from tech licensing being up this year which, along with pretty brutal streamlining and lay offs should make their figures better than expected. IEH can't put out RNS for all sorts of bits of their business .... it's secret, it commercially sensitive, covered by a non-disclosure agreement etc. ..... if I invented something that used tin-foil, the owner of the tin-foil patent would get mentioned in MY patent and get dosh when my patent was licensed but would it be worth releasing an RNS for every time one of IEH's 1,000 plus patents are used? No ... all we see is a rise in income in the annual figures out soon ..... steady progress will suit me fine and if IEH looks safe and to have turned the corner nicely, I think this will do nicely recovering it's falls and more .... not to IPO levels or some brokers' targets for some time but .... the military uses from, for example, headcams and radios that can work for days and are 61% lighter than an equivalent battery ???? I bet the Pentagon is all over IEH's hydrogen powered iPhone 6 like a rash and looking at how the tiny fuel cells can be embedded in all kinds of military kit WHICH THE US SELLS ALL OVER THE WORLD ..... plus the drones ... plus the mobile phone masts .... plus the auto sector if it ever wakes up .... a lot to be optimistic about

[filster] 18/11/2016 07:45

It was a good post, thanks Dean! :)

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 07:41

I'll stick my neck out and say that though consumers may not be early adopters of mini HFCs which have been pioneered by IEH, the military will be and maybe that's what's happening stateside with the cartridge design job and projects. If IEH are, as I've been saying for years useful for "the military" ... they'll always get "funding" and always have to find prosaic explanations in their accounts for income generated by military work.

It seems you cannot send a soldier into battle with an iphone and a charger!!

[dean windass] 18/11/2016 07:30

I hope the last post wasn't too long. I think it might be the best I've done on IEH.

It's clear that it's likely IEH will be getting income from HFCs made by others yet we will never get an RNS every time some of their tech is deployed. IEH may not even know much as Elton John doesn't know if a song of his is being played on the radio until his royalty statement comes. IEH gave filed loads of patents in 2016 .... did we get an RNS about it?

[filster] 18/11/2016 00:01

The MET are trialling them as the London Black Cabs did. London is the key here - it really wants to clean the air in London - it's a big deal there.

[dean windass] 17/11/2016 20:17

Thanks Filster. Maybe they spoke about the Met because it's not commercially sensitive ... not like letting something out of the bag about a company bringing something using their tech to market. From an efficiency point of view, let's say a big country, like China, finds it has natural gas in shale or a gas field .... does it make more sense to

A. Build a gas powered power station by the gas find and send the electricity over pylons or

B. Put solar panels and wind turbines by the gas find, make hydrogen from the gas using renewable energy and transport to hydrogen to supply HFCs where the electricity is needed?

HFCs have the advantage of being portable. If a project needs electricity but only for a limited amount of time, building the infrastructure to carry the electricity there may not be as cost-effective as having HFCs there as long as they're needed then relocating them elsewhere to where they're needed.

Just heard on the radio there are 2 million drones in the UK already.

I wonder why the police would want HFC powered vehicles? To lower their carbon footprint or to power surveillance wagons full of monitoring gear? I know there are military applications for HFCs that IEH may not be allowed to talk about. Maybe I should spend more time digging into more remote corners of the internet to see what lies around to be discovered. I know IEH actually made money at one point .... what from?

[ibug] 17/11/2016 16:37

Higher share price TODAY ---- NOW BACK INTO POSITIVE TERRITORY -- the 3-month MACD chart is starting a new buying cycle.

[filster] 16/11/2016 16:22

Hi Dean

Well... (others may have a different opinion to me!)

My first impression was good. They are well placed on the Loughborough University campus and have a decent set up. The persons we met presented quite well and came across well.

With the change of CEO they seem to have refocussed well and are looking at deals and lowering cash burn. They've certainly lowered their cash burn.

The production line didn't fill me with a warm feeling - although admittedly we saw it demonstrated so it wasn't at full speed. It seemed to be quite manual in it's approach which concerned me about their ability to upscale volume.. They call it semi-automated - but it's quite a small facility. Of course if need be they could bring in shiftwork or 'flex' up and increase their footprint at the campus - but I suspect that they have enough capacity for what they currently need - but this seems slightly limited.

They were making all the right noises and they were keen to demonstrate the DP&G cabinet set up first hand and show the statistics coming back from those currently online in India. There was a Drone being flown, but this crashed...

There was a scooter - not seen moving around and a Taxi Cab - again not seen moving.

The actual products handled and discussed were the AC fuel cells. The standard ones and the lightweight ones. They were impressive products, especially the lightweight ones.

The overriding drive was to use the 'standard' fuel cells in as much Tech as possible. So they don't have to QA them - they should just work as expected. They come in various sizes and therefore capacities. The lightweight ones are ideal for (high end) Drone applications and there should be deals to be done.

They seemed keener on moving in to China and Japan markets as they felt they'd effectively ignored those.

They seem to have the right ideas - I guess time will tell if it's too little too late. It seems like it's the right amount, but could possibly leave them exposed if deals don't come to fruition within the next 6-9 months AND generate revenue. Signing contracts is no good to them if they don't start earning within that timeframe.

I think they felt that they'd got their fingers burnt by previous projects and basically wouldn't be signing up to 'anything' that didn't generate revenue or at least pay for itself.

There is definitely a different approach being applied by the newer management team, they seem capable but maybe should have been in place earlier.

One interesting item they mentioned was their apparent involvement in a Met Police trial of Hydrogen Fuel Celled vehicles (cars I think). They mentioned this and someone picked up on it and yet no one seemed to have heard about it before that or since.

Martin was keen to talk about facts and also his intent to maximise shareholder value and grow the business. Which is good. He was involved as a Non-Executive Director before this (I think). I've taken a quick look at his LinkedIn profile and he's had prior business dealings in China before, with Solar so hopefully he can use his contacts to good effect.

I think the next Annual Report - which must be due out any day - they mentioned that they wished to publish it earlier than previously will be the telling factor in the share price and all of this - improvements need to be seen in there, in black and white.

[dean windass] 16/11/2016 15:18

Filster ... thanks for that .... overall, when you were at IEH, what did you think of them?

[dean windass] 16/11/2016 15:17

IEH are quite well placed in many respects because of the work they've already done in other territories regardless of UK firms' access to the single market post Brexit since if tariffs imposed on UK produced products are punitive, they can just hand the production over to SMILE which may well be able to get stuff into the single market on better terms than the UK is likely to get unless it backs down on the freedom of movement sticking point ...

... just realised what an horrendously long sentence that was up there!! :-)

[filster] 16/11/2016 14:39

Have you seen the production line??? It's 'semi automated' which means the rest of it is manual!! There are 3 IEH ones in existence. 1 in Loughborough, 1 at Suzuki and 1 in the US (I think). They are for quite low volume production runs as well - as they are semi-automated. There are quite a few manual steps in the process (we saw the production line at the Analyst and Investor Day).

But I do agree, since the the change in leadership, they are more interested in manufacturing than licensing. I think a lot of the JVs etc.. were costing IEH too much and not necessarily generating revenue. At least if you manufacture something for someone you get the revenue for that.

[ibug] 16/11/2016 14:37

TowerXchange Asia Meetup

Venue: Marina Bay Sands, Singapore, Singapore

Date: Tue 13 - Wed 14 December, 2016

[dean windass] 16/11/2016 14:36

Well we don't know what the partnership with Suzuki and SMILE is supposed to serve ... maybe SMILE IS IEH's Asian production line, just done in partnership with Suzuki ... people seem to forget the subsidiaries IEH have .... SMILE, E2 in India and a few others that hardly ever get a mention including the one with Scottish Power. If anyone suddenly wants a load of HFCs to IEH's design and spec, I presume SMILE might be the ones to do the work. Post Brexit, it's nice to know that whatever tariffs UK companies have to deal with, IEH already have businesses in Asia that can use IEH tech and patents making stuff locally and tariff free. If Sterling continues to tank, the income from overseas will translate into more sterling. :-)