Intelligent Energy Share Discussion Threads

[ibug] 09/3/2017 14:05

An interesting development from a transport contract manufacturer.


Magna holds a strong position as a development and manufacturing partner for future-oriented drive concepts in the automotive industry, as demonstrated by the fuel-cell range-extender concept.

The FCREEV concept – a Fuel-Cell Range-Extended Electric Vehicle – combines the benefits of zero-emissions electric driving with the advantages of fast-filling hydrogen fuel tanks, providing an impressive solution for achieving long ranges while driving emissions-free.

“One of our strengths is our contract manufacturing expertise, which puts Magna in a unique position in the global automotive supply industry. We will continue to expand in this area thanks to the trust of our customers,” said Günther Apfalter, President Magna International Europe & Magna Steyr. “In tandem we are also able to combine drive technologies in such a way that customers can benefit from high-performance, cost-effective vehicle concepts.”

[netcurtains] 09/3/2017 13:37

i took the loss. i'm out . sorry
best of luck longs

[filster] 09/3/2017 12:44

At the end of the day it has to benefit someone or something financially.

[dean windass] 09/3/2017 12:35

I'd like to know what the main intended use for the GenSets is. The fact they are silent will be useful especially for the military ..... no emissions, you can use them indoors ... I suppose, like everything else, it takes a few bright sparks to think of what they're perfect for then the market grows ... festivals, trade shows, country fairs .... having said that ... one of the gen sets delivered with a big tang of hydrogen to a remote place will make all sorts of things possible .... places where there is no chance of mains can have as much electricity as the hydrogen tank can supply .... big tanl of hydrogen refilled every 6 months perhaps. I imagine the scientific applications are great ... for surveillance and observation in remote places or filming .... none of us had an inkling the GenSets were happening .... we knew the drones news might land (no pun intended) any moment and the embedded fuel cells in the phones ... very clever but can we buy one yet? No ... no-one's pressed that button ...... but all your points are good Filster and I suppose all we can do is wait and presume there is growth in the hydrogen market and IEH will get lumps of the action

[filster] 09/3/2017 11:03

Just to be clear I am pro this technology and company.

The big issue they have is that battery technology is improving and will continue to improve and battery usage is improving and will continue to improve. Once this reaches a tipping point of use the argument for HFCs will lessen and therefore so will the value.

Of course all of the above doesn't give battery powered items the one benefit of HFCs in that the byproduct of HFCs is water, so ultimately clean - but there is the argument that the production of Hydrogen needed to power the cells is not necessarily a clean process.. This weakens the 'clean' fuel argument. Of course this is similar to battery and charging tech. The generation of pollutants moves from the use of the power to the point at which it is generated - e.g. away from City centres and away to power stations.

Hmmm... There is value in the patents - I wasn't saying that but I think the value is lessening.

This reminds me a little of the cable TV companies back in the late 90s. The cost was all upfront and once the infrastructure was in place the money would just roll in. The problem was many, most, if not all of them fell by the wayside. The competition put them out of business and undercut their prices, reducing the profit to almost nothing and reducing the amount of money made as well.

If they can get to mass market quickly enough and demonstrate the tech works and isn't too fiddly or expensive then they should work.

Right now I just want to know what projects they have in the pipeline and also how much of a cash injection the latest announcement made. e.g. they should now have quite a few more months' money in place - but how many? I think they now have around 12 months of money left - has this extended it by 2 more months or 3 more or many more??

Right now it's all about reducing cash burn - but of course in the right way.

[dean windass] 09/3/2017 10:09

But the patents are unique. That means that anyone, anywhere in the world that wants to use the tech will be interested ... which is why Audi / Volkswagen paid $50,000,000 for a few Ballard patents but, as the article above argues, that may have been a short term solution. Of course, it's quite possible IEH have thousands of worthless patents but, let's look at this option ....


IEH, let's argue ... run out of money .... so, what do they do? They close down all the R&d, fire nearly all the staff and just run a skeleton operation that simply collects money from patents ... a bit like a recording artiste who finds there's no money to be made making new albums and decides to just stop making new material and live off the income from their older stuff

Out of interest, has anyone seen any mention in IEH's accounts of income from anyone licensing their tech? ... or do they just do development deals with companies who pay them for their expertise and IEH either make stuff and supply it to other firms or license the tech for other people to make it themselves .....

With news like this ...

"UK-based PEM fuel cell developer Intelligent Energy has signed a further two-year, multi-million pound development agreement with a Japanese volume automotive Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). The contract will contribute to Intelligent Energy's revenues during financial years 2014 and 2015."

We know IEH has been working with SOME Japanese auto makers but who? If it was / is Toyota, who have just announced a strategic tie up with Suzuki (who are IEH's partners in SMILE FC Systems Corporation) then there may well be a nice income if IEH's tech is being used even if it's being manufactured by Toyota.

Unless IEH's tech is proven to be useless and the patents are worthless (and if that was the case, why was the deal mentioned above renewed?) ... we should see, quite soon, some news on more orders for HFCs for GenSets, the drone news (unless it's military), embedded fuel cells in smartphones (unless it's in military comms), UPP2 (unless it's military) ... there's cars and scooters which I think will take time to grow though once hydrogen becomes available more widely and easily, think we'll see lots more applications and I look forward to HFC becoming available in outlets like B&Q and Maplins for integration into almost anything that doesn't require a heavy power source ... which is currently battery powered ... no pun intended ...

[filster] 08/3/2017 22:53

@Dean the answer to that conundrum is not a lot right now. As mentioned before there is a finite amount of cash available right now and the clock is ticking. Anyone contemplating purchasing patents will know that. This massively weakens their (IEH) bargaining position.

Of course you'd hope there would be more than 1 bidder and then the price would potentially rise, but it depends on which ones are considered game changers in the AC HFC arena. AC is where it is at for the moment.

I'm hoping that the AGM will elicit some good news or at least positive demeanour from the company.

[dean windass] 08/3/2017 21:51

OK. Let's sort this out. If IEH decided to sell a few patents, how much would they get?

[ibug] 08/3/2017 20:50

Commonsense is clearly a rare commodity on this thread.

Tut, tut. But there is always another day,...Lol.

[filster] 08/3/2017 20:33

My mistake - you're right - this baby is about to go ballistic and we'll all be millionaires.

[ibug] 08/3/2017 20:17

You two need to go back to school....A couple of desperate and vindictive derampers.

Do the legwork to understand the industry instead of expressing ignorance...lol@idiots

There are phone makers who want fuel cell tech as shown in an earlier post..DYOR. For once.

Try reading and assimilating the following article.

myFC shows world’s thinnest fuel cell LAMINA ™ Thin Film at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona
author Added by FuelCellsWorks, March 02, 2017

Swedish myFC involved in the mobile world's largest trade show, Mobile World Congress in Barcelona on February 27 to March 2. The star of myFC's lineup this year's LAMINA ™ Thin Film, the world's thinnest fuel cell. It runs on myFC's patented JAQ-fuel based on salt and water.

In addition LAMINA ™ Thin Film and its possible applications, myFC will also showcase JAQ technology and associated fuel. MyFC recently signed an agreement with the Chinese mobile phone distributor Telling the fuel cell charger JAQ.

[filster] 08/3/2017 20:08

No - the change in leadership and management team meat that there was a change in the focus of the company.

Apple had the HFC phone... but no one wanted it.

"
Mark Lawson-Statham, the company’s corporate finance chief said: “Our view is that this is a couple of years out but really it’s about how quickly does our partner want to press the button and get on with it?”
Apple declined to comment.
"

from here :

[edwardroger] 08/3/2017 19:52

All so vague. 'And likely to yield results'. And a Chinese company. Oh wow. Yet there is more: 'May release more phone related news'. 'The impetuous will likely to be first to a commercial market and that will have to happen before this summer.' It is a meaningless sentence. And yes, of course, the first to the commercial market will have the impetus!!!!! Even I can appreciate that. The question is not the obvious but whether IEH will be the company that has the 'impetuous'. How often do they allow your out, ibug?

[ibug] 08/3/2017 18:19

The world knows that fact...However the 5.2 million GBP phone project is still active after a year and likely to yield results for the business. As posted earlier a Chinese company is also pursuing thin film fuel cells for their phones.

IEH was the first in that market space more than a year ago to retrofit a fuel cell to a phone and may release more phone related news sooner than expected. The original schedule was up to 2 years. But the tech had already been developed before the research deal was done. The impetuous will likely to be first to a commercial market and that will have to happen before this summer.

[filster] 08/3/2017 18:05

It was a rhetorical question....

Henri Winland is no longer connected with IEH - hasn't been for just over a year now. He was the one in charge when all the money was being used up and kept going to the market for more money...

[ibug] 08/3/2017 18:02

None of your opinion statements can be substantiated...Just deramps..DYOR

Your question was answered try reading the detail with understanding.

[edwardroger] 08/3/2017 17:59

I went to that meeting and was quite disappointed, came away feeling that the energy to sell the product wasn't there. I know the product is excellent, just wish I had more faith in the company as a commercial as well as a research success. Do believe this is why the share price falls so quickly, people who know the company have, over time, lost faith. It only needs some seriously good news relating to drones or the scooters, which I think have a huge potential and the share price would shoot up. The rude, blustering name-calling of ibug is a replacement for intelligence and knowledge, best to ignore anything coming from there.

[filster] 08/3/2017 17:34

There won't be news about phones anytime soon, imo (not fact but certainly my opinion). We'll get Drone news before phone news and the drone news seems unlikely to land soon either..! Stationary generation seems to be the best news we've had and will get - and I think whilst it is "boring" in terms of headlines it is more interesting in terms of revenue generation.

@edwardroger - totally agree I would dearly like this company to do well, currently hold a few shares and recently increased my holding - need to check if I need to indicate that I want to attend the AGM at the end of this month - I'll keep an eye out for ibug.. ;)

I went to the Analyst and Investor meeting in Loughborough. It will be interesting to see what the rhetoric is from the company and Martin Bloom following on from that meeting.

[edwardroger] 08/3/2017 17:31

Apologies, ibug, it should be MORON. What has Hyundai got to do with IEH?

[edwardroger] 08/3/2017 17:27

You are a rude little man, ibug, suppose that's why you keep talking rubbish, makes you feel adequate. You do not, ever, say anything that is provable. You speculate, based on something from a year ago. Yes, perhaps there will be news about the phone but you don't know that, in fact you know nothing. And, just in case you want to let out some more useless wind, look at the share price today and the number of sales, not something that would happen to a company that is about to unveil something big now is it? Not a deramper, morton, as I desperately want this company to do well. You on the other hand are constantly trying to ramp the share price by making unsubstantiated claims based on old, old information. Get a life.

[filster] 08/3/2017 16:49

Can't or won't answer the question?

[ibug] 08/3/2017 16:02

Dean take a look at this thin film fuel cell for phones. HFC's for phones is going to become reality very soon...Note that IEH was first to the marketplace.

myFC shows world’s thinnest fuel cell LAMINA ™ Thin Film at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona
author Added by FuelCellsWorks, March 02, 2017

Swedish myFC involved in the mobile world's largest trade show, Mobile World Congress in Barcelona on February 27 to March 2. The star of myFC's lineup this year's LAMINA ™ Thin Film, the world's thinnest fuel cell. It runs on myFC's patented JAQ-fuel based on salt and water.

In addition LAMINA ™ Thin Film and its possible applications, myFC will also showcase JAQ technology and associated fuel. MyFC recently signed an agreement with the Chinese mobile phone distributor Telling the fuel cell charger JAQ.