Ilika Share Discussion Threads

[horneblower] 28/4/2016 10:58

I may be wrong but I was under the impression their main patents were entered in conjunction with Toyota?

[big7ime] 28/4/2016 10:56

They are not shackled to Toyota. Their Toyota work is separate from and they have different patents separate to the motor related battery work and owe Toyota nothing for this

[horneblower] 28/4/2016 10:35

I'm not suggesting dropping RR, Shell, Toyota. Far from it. I'm suggesting they create a third branch of the company.

They currently have their traditional business which acts as a subcontractor to other co's such as RR. Now they have their battery research division, which came out of a cross fertilisation of ideas between their own scientists and others, mainly Toyota (who they will have to pay dues to).

What they don't have, because they have not been able to afford, is a pure research division looking for such things as solid electrolyte materials. This is where the big profits come from because they are not dependent on outsiders.

It's a risk of course but not as big as becoming solely a battery company.
They have the scientists, or can bring them in.

The fact is that their original area of business is potentially hugely profitable but only by going it alone. Subcontracting to RR, Shell etc is good, everyday fodder but will never make you a real flyer. They now have the chance. They should take it!

[leonsix1] 28/4/2016 10:10

HB, I don't think there's anything wrong with a company changing, in fact it's nearly always positive. Their traditional business led to this discovery & the market is huge. They could have sold the marketing rights to someone & continued with their general discovery work.

Instead, they are marketing it themselves, which if proves as successful as we hope, could be amazing. They could then use their discovery abilities to find the next gen batteries & expanded product range.

The work with shell, RR etc doesn't really seem to lead anywhere big for IKA. If they are able to continue this work without it interfering with the battery work, then fine. If they kicked this other work in to touch & focused on batteries, it might well be a good move imo

[horneblower] 28/4/2016 09:13

Ilika have got to where they are because they had the wherewithal and expertise to discover a useable solid-electrolyte to replace the previous liquid or paste electrolyte used in Li-ion batteries.

The new, patented solid, which I gather is a type of glass, should allow a considerable boost in most of the important properties of the lithium ion battery system including power density, charge recycling, charge retention, charging speed and power system integration (due to its IC manufacturing method).

All this bodes well for Ilika and the future of batteries.

However, Ilika must not lose its head over batteries. Yes, commercialise the current battery breakthrough but remember where all this came from!

Ilika is not a 'battery innovation' company. It is a 'New Materials Discovery' company. It could have a mighty future discovering new materials for all kinds for engineering situations. It should monetise the solid electrolyte discovery and use the cash to build a major materials discovery platform. Only here is where it may be viewed in comparison to ARM.

The secret of doing this is to grow a new arm of the company (sorry, unexpected pun) to do freelance, blue sky work. Only when it unshackles itself from its industrial sponsors like Toyota will it really be able to perform for long term growth.

It could get a chance of doing this if it can quickly capitalise on its current position with its new battery.

Battery solutions will come and go but in opening themselves up to finding answers to todays 'sharp end' industrial material solutions they could rival the likes of ARM, Dyson etc.

[toptrump1] 28/4/2016 08:41

The Ilika stand looked to be pulling a lot of interest yesterday, my cousin didn't get the chance to speak to anybody but will try to make the presentation this evening

[leonsix1] 27/4/2016 16:28

IKA website has a new look

[leonsix1] 27/4/2016 12:38

HB, I agree with your general analysis in 1515. I don't think it's a done deal. I just think that so far so good & that's all that can be hoped for realistically at this stage. They seem to know what they are doing & making progress which is more important than ramping RNSs that lead to nothing. A few on here seem like doom-mongers & quite negative. Balance is good imo

[horneblower] 27/4/2016 12:16

They have a battery but there are many steps before they can enter the larger, general battery market.

Their solid-state chip battery has numerous advantages over standard Lithium ion batteries but although it uses the same lithium ion system it is made in a different way using a different electrolyte substrate.

There are three main things they must achieve, and any of these can cause problems.

Firstly they have to double-stack the cell inside the chip. If they can achieve this, and I assume they already have, then they can significantly improve the power density of the whole battery.

Secondly they have to demonstrate a sufficient production speed to ensure cost competitiveness. This may be tricky as, probably, the faster they push the electrostatic deposition the poorer is likely to be the resulting efficiency of the battery, so it will be a compromise between cost and effectiveness.

Thirdly, in order to get beyond 3 volt, dime style batteries into the realms of phone, laptop and car batteries, they have got to find a large scale structure to compound all the little chips into a whole in a way which allows for safe heat-flow in all working conditions. I have no idea what problems they face doing this but the future will demand this.

I am a fan of what they are trying to do and wish them luck. They will have to be nimble because, although I believe they are ahead of the world at the moment, this is not likely to last long and if they don't take their chances and opportunities now then they will quickly become history.

[impvesta] 27/4/2016 12:14

Very good point leonsix1 (post 1504). I had forgotten how many shares were held by the Instis. That is a very impressive list accounting for 72.6% of the issued share capital:

hxxp://www.ilika.com/investors/shareholder-analysis/

[supernumerary] 27/4/2016 12:11

leon - I'm not so sure about dates - it takes a while to sort these things out. And I think it unlikely there'll be a deal with ARM directly - as Purdy says, they're complementary, so I think it far more likely that they'll both be issuing reference designs etc using the other's components.

I would expect that ARM will also be making customer introductions - it's very much in their interest to get these batteries to market asap because they will enable new uses for their processors and support chips. Co-operation is a win-win for both companies.

Ilika's business model is not to sell batteries, but to sell the IP required to make batteries, so they need a deal with a battery manufacturer, or an outfit that wants to become one. I remain confident it will happen.

[leonsix1] 27/4/2016 11:59

HB "I interpreted jules's post as being about big, new, institutional investors as opposed to the original investors" My original point was is that there are not the shares available for them to buy. The last regig of holdings (about a year ago & post initial subscription) showed a substantial increase by some of these institutions. To say that IKA already have large IIs but you would like some new ones doesn't lead to an obvious point imo

[diesel] 27/4/2016 11:48

Must admit to being a tad disappointed here.
I was under the impression that they were talking to big battery manufacturers and that the products would be coming from them, are we to believe that Ilika are producing these batteries? A trade show is normally where end users adopters see what's available but not where huge deals are done. I won't bail out just yet but am now not so confident of the potential of this technology, IOT is a long way from phones, tablets etc and if this was heading in that direction the battery manufacturers would now be evident.

[horneblower] 27/4/2016 11:43

There is no information regarding any direct or commercial link with ARM.
Purdy has stated that he envisages Ilika's business model being like that of ARM but this does not say anything more than that.

[horneblower] 27/4/2016 11:40

leon, I interpreted jules's post as being about big, new, institutional investors as opposed to the original investors.

jules, I believe that Ilika are doing all the testing themselves although they have an important link with Toyota who will no doubt be fully aware of all of the test results. I believe that Ilika's patents are jointly owned by Toyota but no details regarding contractual sharing has been released as far as I know.

This is extremely important information and without it is impossible to put any future value on Ilika. They will have to be more open in the future or the share price will not go where it should.

[supernumerary] 27/4/2016 11:28

It was always pretty unlikely there'd be a licence deal signed at the same time as the technical announcement. What remains a very strong bull point is the obvious involvement of ARM - if they haven't yet signed a deal, they're certainly very happy to cooperate with Ilika.

[leonsix1] 27/4/2016 11:24

Thanks Rogk, - Ok, wrong end of the stick then. But even so, given that they've just launched today, let's give then a few more hours to get a licence :)

[leonsix1] 27/4/2016 10:57

HB take a look at their shareholder analysis. Between this, directors holdings & other institutions below the 3% mark, I'm not sure what else would qualify as "Big Boys" getting invested. Can't think of many other companies which have this level of holdings, can you? hxxp://www.ilika.com/investors/shareholder-analysis/

[juleshoddy] 27/4/2016 10:44

Edited - I blame my secondary education :) Thank you for insight. Personally, I thought they were further advanced than this? Though I don't follow this on a regular basis, i thought Toyota were behind the testing and commercial viability for production of of Ilika's tech? So, are Ilika alone in these ongoing trials, or are they still working with any larger commercial partners?

[loobrush] 27/4/2016 09:35

Early times yet-announcement(s)could be after show or later at presentation friday.

[juleshoddy] 27/4/2016 09:17

sounds / looks nice. so why are none of the big boys interested in it? Surely this should have been snapped up before they have to market it?

[big7ime] 27/4/2016 08:52

I read that as they have done a deal with ARM but then I'm still sleepy