Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Healthcare Enterprise Group LSE:HCEG London Ordinary Share GB00B6030H73 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 20.50p 0.00p 0.00p - - - 0.00 05:00:10
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Health Care Equipment & Services 0.5 -2.3 -0.5 - 1.19

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Date Time Title Posts
10/11/201218:11Healthcare Enterprise Group29,633.00
29/10/200921:13Only worth 1.25p on fundamentals30.00
28/9/200719:16Stuart Bruck:'We are extremely excited by the cont'd pace of growth of our Co.'-
06/2/200717:57HCEG with Charts & News-
29/1/200720:27RAMBH41.00

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DateSubject
13/8/2010
21:29
willib2: Substp. How much would the share price have to be for you to break even.
18/9/2008
06:32
philwill: Life in the old dog yet :-) Appointment of Adviser/Placing/Trading Update (Healthcare Ent. Grp) RNS Number : 7066D Healthcare Enterprise Group PLC 18 September 2008 Healthcare Enterprise Group PLC Appointment of Adviser, share placing, issue of a convertible loan, disposal of shares in First Aid Holdings Ltd and trading update Healthcare Enterprise Group Plc ("HCEG", the "Company", or "the "Group") is pleased to announce the appointment of Daniel Stewart & Company Plc as Nominated Adviser and broker to the Company with immediate effect. Trading in the Company's shares, which was suspended on 18th August 2008 pending the appointment of a new nominated adviser, is expected to resume at 8:00 am today, 18 September 2008. The Company also announces that it has raised £400,000 (before expenses) by the issue of 100,000,000 new ordinary shares at 0.3 pence ("Placing") Application has been made for the admission of the new ordinary shares to trading on AIM, which is expected to be effective on 25 September 2008. The Company has also issued a convertible loan of £100,000, due in six months and convertible subject to shareholder approval at 0.3p per ordinary HCEG share (interest at 12% p.a. will only be payable if the loan is not converted). John Gunn, a director of the Company, has agreed to subscribe for 16,666,667 Ordinary Shares in the Placing. Following completion of the Placing, he will have an interest in 41,140,581 Ordinary Shares representing approximately 9.37 per cent. of the then issued share capital of the Company. The directors, other than Mr Gunn, consider, having consulted with the Company's Nominated Adviser, that the terms of the transaction are fair and reasonable insofar as the Company's shareholders are concerned. The Company has also sold 218,750 shares (9.8 per cent.) in First Aid Holdings Limited ("FAH") for a consideration of £437,500 ("Disposal"), in order to provide working capital for the Group and to settle certain liabilities assumed under the sale agreement of the Group's former wholly owned subsidiary, Crest Medical Limited. The Group retains a 34.3 per cent. shareholding in FAH. FAH and its subsidiaries are engaged in the sale and distribution of first aid and healthcare related products. Whilst the proceeds of the Placing and the Disposal provide short term working capital for the Group, until the end of 2008, it will need to raise further capital to meet its medium and longer term requirements. The Company is in advanced discussions with a small group of investors, already known to the Company, with a view to raising up to a further £2.25m ("Additional Placing"). These funds, if raised, will be used to finance the medium and long term development of the Company's businesses. This Additional Placing would require the approval of shareholders in General Meeting. Whilst the Directors are confident that the Additional Placing will proceed, there can be no guarantee that it will successful. Shareholders should note that in the event the Additional Placing does not proceed, there can be no certainty that the Company will be able to meet its financial commitments (assuming other sources of funding cannot be secured) in the medium to long term. The Company expects to finalise the Additional Placing within the next month and will make further announcements as appropriate. Proposed executive chairman of Ebiox Limited The Company is pleased to announce that John Honey (aged 53) has agreed to become Executive Chairman of its Ebiox Limited subsidiary. He has invested £100,000 pursuant to the Placing. John Honey brings a wealth of experience in the disinfectant and decontamination industry as well as senior management roles in marketing and general management. John previously served as Senior Vice President of Reckitt Benckiser plc, responsible at various times during his 29 year tenure as executive responsible for Reckitt's global cleaning and disinfectant businesses, including Dettol, Lysol and Cilit Bang brands and its worldwide over the counter business which included Boots Healthcare International (which was acquired for £1.9Bn). He retired from Reckitt's in 2007 to pursue private interests. John's main focus initially will be on overseeing the development and further commercialisation of the Ebiox range of disinfectant and decontamination products, and the appointment of a suitably qualified chief executive for that business. John will also advise on the appropriate marketing strategy for the roll out of Fertiligent's "Evie" brand slow release insemination device. Mr. Honey intends in due course to join the main board of the Company, at which time a further announcement will be made. Ebiox Further progress at Ebiox has been limited by a shortage of working capital and the hardening of supplier payment terms. Customers have been maintained although sales of Ebiox products have been affected. Synergy Healthcare Plc's acquisition of Vernon Carus Limited, Ebiox distributor to the NHS, will require a change in distributor due to product conflicts, and sales under the agreement with Sultan Healthcare Inc. have been below target due to general uncertainties and certain country specific requirements which necessitate additional testing and re-approvals for the 'Solo' branded range. Ebiox has focused on maintaining supplies to existing customers whilst reviewing the market opportunities and examining potential areas of expansion and market cooperation. Patents, registrations and trademarks have been selectively maintained (including in the USA) to allow the later roll out of the companies' products in different geographical territories. The Company has also reviewed its product offering and will, following the appointment of John Honey as Executive Chairman and other new management appointments, undertake product enhancements and further development which will be funded from the Placing proceeds. Reproductive Sciences Limited The Company is pleased to announce good progress in Reproductive Sciences Limited ("RSL"), which owns 19.8 per cent. of Fertiligent Limited, an Israeli company which has developed a slow release insemination device to improve the chance of conception. In previous trials the Fertiligent product recorded a 234% improvement in success rate against IUI (from 6.66% - 15.55%). Further larger studies in 100 patients are commencing in Haifa, Israel in September 2008 and additional trials of the product at The London Bridge Fertility, Gynaecology and Genetics Centre, London Bridge, London, UK are expected to commence later in September 2008. An application for registration of the product with the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is presently underway with approval expected to be secured before the end of 2008. The Company has advanced $150,000 to Fertiligent by way of a convertible loan and intends to advance a further $100,000 under the same convertible loan agreement, payable from the Placing announced above. These funds, which will be used by Fertiligent for product trials and working capital, convert into 9.4% of the equity such that RSL will own 29.2% of Fertiligent with options to increase that holding to 71.7% for the payment of an additional $1.5 million approximately. The Company is in discussions with Fertiligent in relation to further capital required to commence the marketing of the product internationally. RSL's contribution will be funded from the Additional Placing mentioned above.
02/5/2007
20:13
redd: intek never stopped ramping........................ "intek - 5 May'05 - 15:12 - 3019 of 20883 [Cynical mode on] 50k sold at 87p and 40k sold at 88p ... I'd love to know why they waited until the release of this morning's news, three weeks ahead of results, to sell ??? Maybe it was the 0.166 per cent dilution the issue of 250,000 shares caused that tipped them over the edge. They probably thought HCEG should have been given Ebiox Ltd. for nothing instead of paying for it ... in milestones, over a period of time. Related to performance ... paid in stock, not cash ??? [Cynical mode off] I'm genuinely amazed ... maybe I'm too insulated here at intek towers, living the high life off the back of the money I've already made from HCEG shares !!! Maybe the world is ending and no one told me ??? intek - 6 May'05 - 15:20 - 3071 of 20883 Isn't it odd how last week the HCEG share price was pushed down hard to encourage sellers ... then a week later we get two positive RNS's that allow those shares to be sold back to punters at higher prices. Must be a coincidence, but funny how often it happens. I am, of course, using sarcasm here ... LOL !!! intek - 9 May'05 - 12:52 - 3134 of 20883 With two new products a year over the next three years (six in total) as a minimum that HCEG will bring to market and their policy of not bringing anything to market that won't give them GBP 10 mill per annum within 3 years, this company would have to be totally inept not to not see a significant revaluation of the market cap over that period. To date I haven't seen anything other than quality management and good moves from the company ... I don't think inept is in their lexicon. All IMHO, of course ;-) intek - 12 May'05 - 20:19 - 3244 of 20883 One of the problems is that when you get a group of people together they feed off each others emotions and things get magnified beyond the state they should really be at. The internet has provided an excellent medium for this to happen ... note the earlier post about people on MW's board talking about the poor state of the market. Mania is often attributable to groups ... there's too many groups about these days. I vote we shut this board down now. Only joking ;-) But will somebody please tell me why the market is expected to crash ??? I keep getting told this but nobody has given me any evidence to support the view ... despite tales of Iraqi's hating the Americans and the "threat" of the North Koreans nobody has given me any credible reason for a crash. Why do so many people think the market is set to fall ... interest rates, oil prices, political instability, over valued stocks ??? Maybe there's people who are scared of the market collapsing but have no idea why. That's the way it seems to me." How many more do you want to see to be convinced?
02/5/2007
16:21
redd: vctlbt2, if you bothered to read my posts you will see that I have made a clear case for why HCEG is a poor company and an even worse investment. This has been a credible analysis as witnessed by the falling share price since I first posted. substp, on the other hand, never mentions HCEG's difficulties or their serious financial problems. Indeed, if you read his posts you could be easily forgiven if you expected the share price to be have been rising the past 2 years. All he does is ramp, ramp, ramp and all the time the share price is heading lower!! And anyone who thought he was genuine and bought shares in this pos has lost a lot of money! Is that right? So, who is telling the truth about HCEG? Certainly not substp!! PS. Just to be clear, I don't like evil scumbag rampers!! People like substp, Mark30, Charles Clore, mknight, Chelsea Dagger, Adejuk, Troys, intek, Master RSI, Jitters, Terry91, lyonesse2, scotswhaehae, shrek3, frogkid and substp!!
16/3/2007
00:37
redd: Before I leave for the weekend............. www.michaelwalters.com "23/2/2005 Seeing Double It has been nagging at me for weeks – this notion that the market might have failed to recognise what is going on at Healthcare Enterprise Group (HCEG). Might there be a profits explosion ahead? Could it be that we might be close to a major change in the perception of this business, one which could set the share price motoring if only the analysts get to work? Is it all sitting there, right under our noses, just waiting to be recognised? Indulge me awhile. There are no guarantees – when could there ever be? – no hard figures. But, by golly, it is hard to contain a powerful feeling that the jigsaw is coming together in spectacular fashion. Foolish, perhaps, to entertain the idea that the City has really missed it. After all, since the shares were consolidated 25 into one, it looks as if house broker Numis has been busy clearing out small retail sellers – the likes of you and I – and quietly placing more stock with fund managers, tidying up the market for a run. Tracking these things is not easy, but it is safe to assume that board members and their associates, plus the institutions and City names, hold somewhere between 85% and 89% of the issued capital. There are around 150m shares in issue, so maybe fewer than 25m are in the hands of private individual investors. Institutions do job in and out, but can broadly be assumed to be medium to long term holders. That applies, too, to the board and associates. The price, then, is significantly influenced by the mood of small investors, the marginal players who swing in and out. The directors should have a good idea of what is going on, what might happen. They cannot say outside the formal announcements. Safe to say that their mood is careful but confident. Check the announcement on February 7 covering the exercise of options and share sales. None of the key players – executive chairman Stuart Bruck, chief operating officer Gordon Wood, finance director John Bradshaw – exercised options or sold. Indeed, Wood has been quietly gathering more shares. In the mysterious way the City works, the big shareholders will have been able to chat to the brokers and the board from time to time. The shares have risen strongly in the last couple of months as they have accumulated stock. The big boys will have some idea of what is happening, and will have been made comfortable about progress. They have been persuaded to buy, not sell. Maybe, though, busy boys that many of them may be, they do not yet have a clear idea of how it is really developing. They will probably be waiting for greater guidance from an analysts' report or two – the main recognised channel which puts news into the market, and lets it filter down to private investors. Healthcare is sorely lacking informed broker comment. House analyst Robin Gilbert at Numis is a careful chap. He has been sparing with notes on Healthcare, taking a conservative line, sitting back and watching as a whirl of deals means that anything he might write would be left out-dated in an instant. And these days, sensible brokers are all too vulnerable to accusations of hyping stock. This means that there are no serious formal profit projections in the market. I think just over £4m for next year was the last I saw. Sooner or later, Gilbert will update. Word reaches me that at least one other sensible analyst has started to look. Goodness knows when or if he will publish anything. There is, then, an information vacuum out there around Healthcare. No serious City chap has yet attempted to catch up with events. There have, after all, been 18 Stock Exchange announcements from the company since November 8. And it was an unusually complex company to start with. Sorry to labour this in what might appear a prolonged preamble, but it is important. I don't follow the big stocks too carefully because they tend to be over-analysed. Sixty analysts or more go to some results conferences, and nothing which comes out is ever a surprise – unless it is bad news. At Healthcare, though, no-one much is watching yet. So they have missed the build-up of good news. If and when they catch up, and if they reach the right conclusions, the whole investment image could be transformed. Getting there first presents a real opportunity. Reality is one thing in the stock market – perception is another, and it can be the most important element from time to time. The basic emerging bull case for Healthcare is simple. The company has bought a bunch of solid medical products distributors, mostly in the UK, to build on an established operation. They will settle down into a nice little earner, making £4m or £5m a year and growing steadily. Rate them on maybe 15 times earnings, and they could be valued at, say, £45m. At mid-price of 75p, the whole of Healthcare is capitalised at £112m (I am not allowing for full dilution and have not counted the warrants). Add to that the global sales potential of Ebiox, the decontaminant and disinfectant which is proven to kill superbugs, and there is the prospect of extra profits of £15m to £20m a year. Apply a pe of 15 to them, and you have another £150m plus of value. Look beyond that to Optiscope, the disposable endoscope which might start selling by the end of this year, and you have another big chunk of value. Plus whatever is to come from Wood's trips to Israel, which could result in a couple more block-buster products close to market. On that basis alone, we are looking at the potential for the share price to double from here. That could well prove highly conservative. Note, though, that timing is uncertain. Could we do it for 2005-06, the year which is about to begin on March 1? Maybe. Timing is always a problem, especially with fast-growing blue sky companies. But my profit projections could prove conservative – or they could take longer to realise, if they are realised. What matters to the share price this year, though, is perception. If the market begins to see that Healthcare could soon become a £20m plus profit business, and then some, we could be talking about a major re-rating. There are others better equipped than I who can fill in the detail, who is doing what and where. As before, I commend the curious to the Healthcare thread on ADVFN where a poster under the name intek has created a brilliant site, and displays an awesome command of the workings of the company. My view is a broader one, at risk of attracting accusations of an over-active imagination. You pays your money, and ... Look at some of the information we know. Wood is on record that Healthcare will not invest in a product unless it is capable of generating revenue of £10m inside three years. It is a little difficult to locate the starting date, but fair to assume that we are a couple of years into that target on Ebiox. Crucially, the company considers there are six Ebiox products. They have different names, and it is too confusing to suggest that I can identify each one. But there is a moisturising hand cleaner, a cleaning wipe, a floor and surface cleaner, a foam cleaner in a hand spray, a surgical instrument cleaner, and a stainless steel conditioner and polish. Plus a batch of stuff for veterinarians, and more for dentists (watch for progress there), and...that is more than six, so you see why it gets confusing. The main point, though, is that when we apply Wood's comments to Ebiox, we are not looking at projected annual revenues of £10m, but £60m. Are there other clues? Go to the announcement of January 25 and the deal to acquire the outstanding 49% minority in Ebiox from inventor Keith MacGregor, who is still very much aboard Healthcare. This substituted a share deal for various options. It mentioned a royalty payment on the first £112m in sales by Ebiox, paid annually over a five year period from February 1, 2005. It appears that this oddly precise £112m related more to what MacGregor wanted than to a clear projection of Ebiox sales. Nonetheless, such figures are not agreed unless they make some sense. Key players agree they have some relevance. They project revenues of £22m a year from Ebiox to meet the target. Rooting around in the undergrowth, there seems a working assumption that revenues will be rather greater. Profit margins are a sensitive subject. Proper companies charge what the market will bear without stifling sales. It appears that margins on Ebiox could be in excess of 60%. Let us assume 50%. On the basis that six Ebiox products will together generate £60m revenues, that suggests profits of £30m. Or on the basis of the MacGregor agreement, we are looking at £11m profits minimum, maybe weighted less to the early years, more later. The figures are a long way apart, and it would be silly to get too precise about timing. But maybe you begin to glimpse the possibilities? More rigorous research might plough through the various Ebiox agreements, regulatory approvals, different markets and such. That is beyond me. What is clear is that Ebiox rolls up surface biofilms and removes them. It does the job, and while it would be foolish to suggest it is the only satisfactory answer so far to hospital superbugs, it seems far and away the most effective and acceptable (alcohol works, but is too nasty to encourage consistent use) . In different products in different places, Ebiox is passing official tests – though it might take years and many thousands more deaths before our own National Health Service adopts it properly. There are already important distribution deals in the US and in the Far East, notably Japan. They involve relatively small initial quantities, as might be expected. But the offtake is growing fast. More important, Ebiox has attracted attention from big name companies in massive markets. People are knocking at the door regularly. There is a perception problem here, too. Because there has been such an angry outcry over the superbug problems in National Health Service, Ebiox has become identified with hospital conditions in the UK. Patients and investors alike have been frustrated by the bureaucracy which has prevented more than minimal sales so far. The hospital/healthcare market is only a part of the market, which might stretch to $1bn a year. The total market extends to all forms of industrial and household disinfectant, and may be $32bn. We are talking silly figures here, with a variety of efficient products in competition. What fraction of this vast market would it take to make Ebiox a real block-buster product? A tiny, tiny fraction. We do not know who is looking at Ebiox, and what they might have in mind. But is would be no surprise if the biggest names in global disinfectants were among them. It is already set to go into industrial clean rooms in the US. How long before we have baby wipes, general cleaning wipes, all-purpose tough industrial and household disinfectants? And we are looking here well beyond the UK. The US and the Far East are far bigger, more progressive markets. Let your mind run over the possibilities. Do not commit to the timing – though I believe Ebiox is already firmly in the sights of a variety of potential overseas partners – and do not imagine the fattest margins will hold if one of the big boys gets involved. But... Once again, it is important to emphasise that there are no guarantees on numbers or timing. But the chances of Ebiox transforming earnings at Healthcare in a year or two must be strong. Then we get to the other stuff. Sorry if this is getting to be a long, hard slog. But you need to think about it. On February 11, Healthcare issued a statement increasing the holding in Optiscope Technologies. This is working on a disposable endoscope(there is loads about this and other Healthcare details in my archives, if you can bear it). It is to be made by an outstanding German company, Wahl Optoparts (part of Jenoptik), who are taking it through a series of milestones as it is developed. Along the way, they are logging progress with the US Food and Drug Administration in a programme which should minimise any regulatory delays in reaching retail sales. Current re-usable endoscopes are expensive and hard to clean. Each use effectively costs around $40 after counting cleaning costs and such. The throw-away Optiscope endoscopes can be made for around $5. How Healthcare would sell them is not completely clear. It may be that there will be different licences to different companies to market them for different forms of use, different markets. It is clear that if the optiscope costs $5 and competes with a $40 cost, for re-usables, there could be fat margins, whatever way it is marketed. It saves time and contamination in hospitals, and looks a clear winner. The first production run of 1,000 units will be ready within a few weeks. The company will be disappointed if they are not on sale by the end of the year. The market for rigid endoscopes is worth $400m to $500m a year, and growing. So Optiscope might be generating revenue and profits in the year which is about to start. Not bad. We know, too, that Wood has been visiting the Israeli incubator which helped come up with Ebiox and developed Optiscope. On January 7, Bruck revealed that the company was evaluating several additional products from the incubator and hoped to announce them in the coming months. These will be closer to market than Ebiox and Optiscope, and will meet the target of investing only in products which should generate revenues of £10m within three years. Rumour has it that there is real excitement over what is to come. Could they help the share price, too? Sceptics will be quick to point out that all of this erects a hefty castle on shifting sand. It projects substantial profits from products which may not yet appear to be generating any great revenues. At best, I am weaving a dream out of strands of hope. Maybe that is so. But you have only to glance at the great list of announcements to see that Healthcare is concluding agreements with substantial companies across the world. And whatever the adoption problems in the UK, no-one is disputing that Ebiox works, and does tackle a severe and growing global problem. Oh, and note that in the process of taking out minorities and cleaning up the structure, key players like Wood and MacGregor have actually raised their holding of shares. Could it all disappoint? Of course, it could. Could the build-up of earnings take longer than expected? Of course. Such negative notions will prompt some to shy away. Others may feel the possibilities are so exciting that Healthcare shares could have a long, long way to go over the next few years. And that the possible pace of growth has been understated here, and ought to attract a higher rating than a pe of 15. Make your own decisions. I hold shares and warrants in Healthcare. For weeks, I have been noodling around, seeking to confirm whether all of this made sense. Had I not decided that it was important to write it first for subscribers, I would have bought more by now. The warrants are a little more attractive for real gamblers than the Ordinary shares. This is already too long to explain just how they work here. If you want to know, go to the bulletin board and look for admirable posts by kenmitch and others on the warrants threads. If you cannot find those threads easily, search for posts by kenmitch. One final plea. This has taken a great deal of work. While I am always happy to see the site publicised on other boards when people mention there is a new report here, it would be deeply frustrating to see the guts of this posted elsewhere. So mention it by all means, but please don't give the real game away. Ends"
22/2/2007
13:14
silent_angel: Redd, are you ignoring me? Perhaps you didn't read my last post in response to yours. Here it is again.. Redd, the questions that you have in fact not answered clearly. Which do you think is most likely, that the share price will be higher in 6 months time or lower than the current price? "SA, no one knows that as you must also know." I did not ask you if you "know" I asked you which you think "most likely." "When buying a share you have to consider from all available evidence whether you feel it will rise or fall. Some shares, such as 'value' companies for instance, are easier to analyse. Whereas other companies that are highly speculative ie HCEG are more difficult to predict, particularly if there are new developments but no firm figures to base a valuation on. So, given this, and HCEG's reputation so far, it is still very risky. You really should look at HCEG's financial performance, balance sheet and cash flow. It speaks volumes." I did not ask you "how easy" it is to speculate, I asked you to speculate. "SA, I honestly don't know because things are a little different now. However, If you asked if I would buy then I would quickly say NO." I did not ask you whether or not you would buy I asked you to speculate price in 6 months time. " The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off. I do expect another cash raising exercise or rights issue sometime this year which would undermine the share price as well as dilute holdings." Ok so you give me some points that could negatively affect the share price, but still no clarification on the price in 6 months time taking all you know/feel whatever into account. But your comment led me to some more questions, which also you have not answered, Ok Redd, you said, "The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off." What is "weak" about the balance sheet? Will it improve? What is "bad" about the cash flow? Will it improve? How long away are you talking about for profits? Will it get closer? If these are yes then Will the value of the company increase? will the share price more likely be higher or lower in 6 months time? Is it more likely that HCEG will make a profit sometime in the future or not? "SA, I think I've answered your questions in the best possible way. I don't know and neither does anyone else but, as I pointed out, one thing is certain, they have much to do and may still fail." Ok Redd, you say it may fail, does that mean that in your opinion there is a chance that it will suceed? Also I asked you your position you said you are not shorting. That doesn't tell me if you are waiting for an ideal time to short in the future. That doesn't tell me if you bought it in the past, Have a spread bet, a warrant, a call, a put, or anything. Let me rephrase the question. Will you gain or lose any money from either a rise or fall in the share price? Any answers to these specific questions would be most welcome. And as to your rather flippant critical and ignorant remarks about my being caught out by TDM, here is my position on that share. 10/01/07 Buy 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 5.13p £522.56 21/02/07 Sell 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 9.30p £922.50 21/02/07 Buy 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 8.90p £901.95 So you see, I made £399.94 profit on my first trade on TDM. And then I bought them back at a cheaper price today. Like HCEG, I had really bought them on a buy to hold basis but I am still able to change my plan if I see a very likely trading opportunity. Now Redd, do you want to be friends and continue to respect each other and our differences and have an intelligent discussion that we can both benefit from? Regards, SA
21/2/2007
22:23
silent_angel: Redd, the questions that you have in fact not answered clearly. Which do you think is most likely, that the share price will be higher in 6 months time or lower than the current price? "SA, no one knows that as you must also know." I did not ask you if you "know" I asked you which you think "most likely." "When buying a share you have to consider from all available evidence whether you feel it will rise or fall. Some shares, such as 'value' companies for instance, are easier to analyse. Whereas other companies that are highly speculative ie HCEG are more difficult to predict, particularly if there are new developments but no firm figures to base a valuation on. So, given this, and HCEG's reputation so far, it is still very risky. You really should look at HCEG's financial performance, balance sheet and cash flow. It speaks volumes." I did not ask you "how easy" it is to speculate, I asked you to speculate. "SA, I honestly don't know because things are a little different now. However, If you asked if I would buy then I would quickly say NO." I did not ask you whether or not you would buy I asked you to speculate price in 6 months time. " The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off. I do expect another cash raising exercise or rights issue sometime this year which would undermine the share price as well as dilute holdings." Ok so you give me some points that could negatively affect the share price, but still no clarification on the price in 6 months time taking all you know/feel whatever into account. But your comment led me to some more questions, which also you have not answered, Ok Redd, you said, "The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off." What is "weak" about the balance sheet? Will it improve? What is "bad" about the cash flow? Will it improve? How long away are you talking about for profits? Will it get closer? If these are yes then Will the value of the company increase? will the share price more likely be higher or lower in 6 months time? Is it more likely that HCEG will make a profit sometime in the future or not? "SA, I think I've answered your questions in the best possible way. I don't know and neither does anyone else but, as I pointed out, one thing is certain, they have much to do and may still fail." Ok Redd, you say it may fail, does that mean that in your opinion there is a chance that it will suceed? Also I asked you your position you said you are not shorting. That doesn't tell me if you are waiting for an ideal time to short in the future. That doesn't tell me if you bought it in the past, Have a spread bet, a warrant, a call, a put, or anything. Let me rephrase the question. Will you gain or lose any money from either a rise or fall in the share price? Any answers to these specific questions would be most welcome. And as to your rather flippant critical and ignorant remarks about my being caught out by TDM, here is my position on that share. 10/01/07 Buy 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 5.13p £522.56 21/02/07 Sell 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 9.30p £922.50 21/02/07 Buy 3DM WORLDWIDE ORD GBP0.025 10000 8.90p £901.95 So you see, I made £399.94 profit on my first trade on TDM. And then I bought them back at a cheaper price today. Like HCEG, I had really bought them on a buy to hold basis but I am still able to change my plan if I see a very likely trading opportunity. Now Redd, do you want to be friends and continue to respect each other and our differences and have an intelligent discussion that we can both benefit from? Regards, SA
21/2/2007
14:22
silent_angel: Silent_Angel - 16 Feb'07 - 09:07 - 20218 of 20496 extract extract Morning Redd!! Your comment "I'm well aware that the market looks ahead" is a great one and I fully agree with it. "but let's not forget the fall from 130p to 3p." Well the past is history, but the present is a gift. The most relevent past is the most recent, i.e. since December, I would rather invest in a company coming out of the doldrems than one going in. Your quote "When there's little else to justify a high mkt cap", is a little more interesting, You would have to go through the long list of products in turn and say what is the likely out come of them eventually to place a value on them and justify the market cap. Not to mention the liklihood of other future revenue streams becoming available. with regards your comment " you have to deliver or pay the price." I think HCEG did when it went from 130p to 3p. Now, I have just one question for you. Where in your opinion do you "expect" the price to be in 6 months time? Regards to you Redd, SA (Redd, your reply post 20319) SA, no one knows that as you must also know. When buying a share you have to consider from all available evidence whether you feel it will rise or fall. Some shares, such as 'value' companies for instance, are easier to analyse. Whereas other companies that are highly speculative ie HCEG are more difficult to predict, particularly if there are new developments but no firm figures to base a valuation on. So, given this, and HCEG's reputation so far, it is still very risky. You really should look at HCEG's financial performance, balance sheet and cash flow. It speaks volumes. Silent_Angel - 19 Feb'07 - 16:37 - 20321 of 20497 edit Redd Let me rephrase, taking everything that you know so far, which do you feel is more likely? That the price will be higher or lower in 6 months? Thanks, SA Redd - 19 Feb'07 - 16:48 - 20323 of 20497 SA, I honestly don't know because things are a little different now. However, If you asked if I would buy then I would quickly say NO. The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off. I do expect another cash raising exercise or rights issue sometime this year which would undermine the share price as well as dilute holdings. SA, please could you tell me where you expect the price will be in 6 months time? Silent_Angel - 19 Feb'07 - 20:43 - 20340 of 20498 edit Ok Redd, you said, "The balance sheet is weak, the cash flow bad and any profits still a long way off." What is "weak" about the balance sheet? Will it improve? What is "bad" about the cash flow? Will it improve? How long away are you talking about for profits? Will it get closer? If these are yes then Will the value of the company increase? will the share price more likely be higher or lower in 6 months time? I respect your answers as you have looked into this and have a good knowledge of these things. Thanks SA Redd - 19 Feb'07 - 20:53 - 20341 of 20498 SA, profits? Might never happen! Silent_Angel - 19 Feb'07 - 22:47 - 20345 of 20498 edit Redd, I suggest that even taking your doubt seriously, it is more likely that HCEG will make a profit sometime in the future than not. What do you think? (still remains to be answredd)
14/2/2007
12:53
itgr0wsontreesdotcom: Anyone care to put a figure on future HCEG share price - is it still worth getting in ?
15/1/2007
12:18
redd: zapa, show me the post. I bet you can't. Anyhow it is right to say that before the last announcement I was very negative on the future for HCEG. Now I am just a little less so. This one deal will not be enough to change much. Also zapa, let's not forget that the HCEG share price fell 69% in 2005 and 85% in 2006. Would have to rise 470% from now (ignoring spread and other trading costs) to return just to the 1 January 2006 price. What price/prices have you paid?
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