Fox Marble Share Discussion Threads

[andy] 02/3/2017 11:56

exbroker,

"How do you know Banyan have no offices or assets? I think they are one of the biggest marble players in China!"

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And they are registered in Gibraltar?

I don't think so!

You are way out there IMO, but please feel free to give me the the address of their offices in China. As you're close to the company that should be quite easy.

[andy] 01/3/2017 20:58

Exbroker1 Mar '17 - 10:25 - 1644 of 1651 0 1
Andy
It’s what sort of x blocks that Fox need to know, they have 7 type of stone.
As to margins it difficult to calculate given the fixed cost of the operation, i.e. the margin will be greater for every additional block they quarry.

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I agree that with each additional sale fixed costs reduce as they are spread over more sales, but you are clearly close tot he company so they must know their margins.

At their first ever presentation on 2012, Chris said that they make a little on blocks, bit the big margins are made on the processed product. The Indian order is for block only and they have yet to announce a large order from anyone for processed.

Are you not concerned that the chinese "order", the Banyan "order", and the Eboracum "order" are still on the order book?

Would you call any of them performing?

[andy] 01/3/2017 20:48

kaos3,

Not very pleasant.

This thread is one of the few on ADVFN where people disagree respectfully, let's keep it that way shall we?

[kaos3] 01/3/2017 20:18

svašta pička rodi znamo svi osim engleza

[wolstencroft] 01/3/2017 20:07

Exbroker thanks for seemingly confirming that Eboracum no longer being in the order book would require an RNS. I'll ask the non-execs and see if they think it needs one.

If Eboracum are in the order book then the non-execs IMHO need to ask the executive board why a dormant company can have orders in the order book. I never came across it in my entire career but we know that Fox's approach to orders seems somewhat innovative and many here seem to have claimed it to be contrary to standard business practices and for all I know, based on the filings on Banyan and Eboracum includes:

Orders from companies that don't have any assets or offices
Orders from companies that are dormant
Orders from companies that just don't end up buying much

This IMHO is going to make a fantastic piece in Private Eye etc some day.

BTW, one of your main customers going dormant with a million plus "order" is your problem, not theirs. They'll perhaps just disappear quietly and you'll have to (I would venture) issue an RNS saying that the massive order you announced a while back in fact will not be filled. Some shareholders may then wish to know when this became manifest and if they have ground for feeling that the market has been misled.

[wolstencroft] 01/3/2017 17:46

Chris has not answered these two questions (that is I wrote to him and he wrote back but did not answer them and instead queried whether or not I was a shareholder!)

How is Eboracum Marble going to fulfil its million-plus order now that it is a dormant company as per Companies House filings?

Can you confirm they are no longer in your order book?

[caradog] 01/3/2017 13:34

Simple question - why do the Fox quarries not operate in the winter? Any open cast quarry has to move thousands of tons of stone, so a bit of snow should not cause anything other than minor inconvenience. Open cast copper and iron ore mines in Northern Scandinavia operate all-year-round in temperatures commonly dropping to minus 30.

[exbroker] 01/3/2017 10:25

Andy
It’s what sort of x blocks that Fox need to know, they have 7 type of stone.
As to margins it difficult to calculate given the fixed cost of the operation, i.e. the margin will be greater for every additional block they quarry. I am not sure how close to breakeven the Indian deal gets them but it must be a good way there, I suspect that another of the same sort of size would get them very close and anything more would start to go straight to the bottom line unless more capx was needed.

[andy] 28/2/2017 21:47

dhlindly,

FOX recognise orders and sales differently, so an "order" doesn't necessarily translate into a sale. They are the only company I have ever heard of doing this.

What people need to know is the margins on sales of block and finished product, but nobody, including ex broker can answer the question.

It's no good announcing sales , if people cannot calculate the margin of profit per sale, is it?

[dhlindy1] 28/2/2017 21:14

For info.
When I visited late last year and saw the first block being cut I also visited two of the quarries. There were many many blocks quarried and sitting on site. They were all marked with stock numbers (you can see the markings on the co. video of the stone being cut) and I was told that all the blocks are entered into stock records. Whether the blocks in stock are what is being ordered I do not know but if it is then they have plenty already cut. At the same time Cutting in the quarry was actively happening, though I guess that with winter snow this is currently in closedown.

[andy] 28/2/2017 20:21

Exbroker,

What's the % margin on blocks please?

You of all people must be able to answer that question surely?

I interpret an order when someone makes a confirmed purchase, and a sale when the money arrives. There's no "rough idea" about it, once they say "send us X blocks", that's an order, but not until.

[wolstencroft] 28/2/2017 19:22

"Eboracum is a very small side show compared to the Indian order announced recently."

LOL! That's really funny. IMHO perhaps if and when that Indian order comes to nothing there will be an even bigger order making the Indian order look like a side show and so on ad infinitum.

I've written to Chris and if I get no answer I'll write to the non-execs.

[pugugly] 28/2/2017 16:46

Exbroker: Thanks for the news re Scott - I must have missed it - RE order/payment it comes back to (as has been discussed on this board many times - what is an order - Also re Eboracum although they have paid it is not clear if they have taken delivery. If as a result of Scott's illness if they never take what happens to the advance payment ?


Within the context of FOX business I would not call a €2,000,000 order a small side show
" Of the EUR3.5m, one large order has been received from an import/export company based in the UK for a total of EUR2m, of which a 30% deposit is expected by 26 February 2016. The balance is payable prior to shipment of this order, expected in Q1 2016;

-- New long-term distribution agreement entered into with Eboracum Limited, a company based in the north of England through which the above EUR2m order has already been received;"

As you are close to the company perhaps you could talk to them about clarifying the difference between "orders" and "sales" in their aannouncements. It should (imo) give the announcements greater credence.

[andy] 28/2/2017 15:10

Exbroker,

How do you know about Scott being ill please?

What's the margin on block?

[effortless cool] 28/2/2017 12:26

Dormant according to Companies House

Your company is called dormant by Companies House if it’s had no ‘significant’ transactions in the financial year.

Significant transactions don’t include:
filing fees paid to Companies House
penalties for late filing of accounts
money paid for shares when the company was incorporated

You don’t need to tell Companies House if you restart trading. The next set of non-dormant accounts that you file will show that your company is no longer dormant.

[andy] 28/2/2017 11:43

pugugly,


Why would they do that though?

Some obvious questions emerge:

Why not put the "loan" through Eboracum's books?

Should FOX now reduce their order book by the amount of the outstanding Eboracum order?

If Eboracum are dormant, does that mean they have not sold a single slab of marble from their order? If they have made sales, surely they can't be dormant?

Or do I have that wrong? genuinely open to correction, can you trade and still be dormant in the same year? Maybe someone more knowledgeable about company law can answer.

The accounts, if published, will make interesting reading.

[effortless cool] 28/2/2017 10:31

True enough, Pugugly, although I somehow doubt it in this case.

We won't know for sure until we see the accounts, which are due by 22 July 2017.
(Prediction - those accounts will never be filed)

[pugugly] 28/2/2017 09:27

EC: Could have been a shell and payment was funded by a director's loan - Quite common in private companies - However as Eboracum is stated on Companies House as a dormant company and was (imo) claimed to be a significant customer then should not FOX issue an rns ? Perhaps "Oldbroker" could advise on the requirements ?

[effortless cool] 28/2/2017 09:22

wolstencroft,

It was me - and you missed off the fact that Eboracum had just £1 of capital, so there is no way it could have made an advance payment of £300,000 to FOX.


Effortless Cool
8 Feb '17 - 21:24 - 1585 of 1630 1 0 Edit

Eboracum have indeed filed, wolstencroft. That filing shows them still to be a dormant company with just £1 of capital. It remains hard to square this situation with Fox's announcement of 7 March 2016:

"Fox Marble, the AIM listed company focused on marble quarrying and finishing in Kosovo and the Balkans region, is pleased to confirm that of the €2,000,000 order placed through Fox Marble's new long-term distribution agreement entered into with Eboracum Limited ("Eboracum"), as reported in the Company's announcement dated 21 January 2016, the Company has received confirmation from Eboracum's accountants of receipt of an advance payment of £300,000 (€390,000) into their client account, which will shortly be transferred to the Company. This advance reflects the material on hand that is ready for shipment, for which delivery is now expected to commence. The balance is payable prior to further shipments".

Or this one from 19 August 2016:

"Delivery has commenced under the long-term distribution agreement entered into with Eboracum Marble Limited, a company based in the north of England, through which a €2 million order for a range of marble slabs has been received. An advance payment on this purchase order of €390,000 was received in March 2016".

[czar] 28/2/2017 08:03

If and when they land another deal of similar size and quality to the Indian one this will really fly. A second deal means there will definitely be a 3rd 4th 5th............. I'm poised over the BUY button but don't keep me waiting too long please Fox. Meantime I don't see the need for any fund raising, they have good cash coming in now, the only reason for raising more funds will be when they have to ramp up production to meet the increased level of orders; a quality problem. Anyway we are not there yet but I'm hoping for another big deal in Q2.