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FIF Finsbury Food Group Plc

110.00
0.00 (0.00%)
Last Updated: 00:00:00
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Finsbury Food Group Plc LSE:FIF London Ordinary Share GB0009186429 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 110.00 - 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
0 0 N/A 0

Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

Showing 4201 to 4225 of 4850 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  170  169  168  167  166  165  164  163  162  161  160  159  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
02/12/2014
12:57
just bt 9000 at same price as chairman so fingers crossed.
manrobert
02/12/2014
08:13
Maiden share purchase (46k) by Chairman
glaws2
01/12/2014
18:52
not sure whether the acq. of Fletchers is perhaps over priced a bit

FIF looks to have a reported EBITDA of 10.7M
giving a low ratio to cap. value of 3.7- 4 (with share price at 60p)

EBITDA/share looks to have been around 16p (10.7M/66M)

(that ratio would reduce even more if one removed the recent large investment in new machinery, phps 6-8M, and the property held and considered a value of EV wrt EBITDA, perhaps reducing the ratio to 3 !)

and FIF was roughly debt free or would have been phaps in 1 yr

while Fletchers EBITDA was 6M
(59M new shares issued)

yet Fletchers valued at 56M
a ratio of around 9
(and had debt)

a valuation ratio MUCH higher than the FIF ratio

EBTDA/new share is 8.5....much lower than the 16 for 'old' FIF !!!!!!!

(for this value I have deducted 1M as estimated interest cost for the 21M debt used with shares to obtain the 6M EBITDA from Fletchers)

The large difference in EBITDA per share ratios between old FIF and Fletchers makes me wonder if FIF has over paid to acquire Fletchers, compared with options choices to benefit shareholders, such as perhaps increasing the divi for the old FIF to drive up the share price (towards 120p for the old FIF)....for a low risk solution to benefit shareholders.


(from the summary info available...it looks difficult to me to calculate the expected EPS and debt. in 1 years time...although the cash generation should reduce the debt level and hence the finance costs...I guess some people will have enough data and have calculated some numbers...)

I guess part of the idea is to increase the EPS over coming years by reducing the increased debt from cashflow.....(not going to attract many tech sector investors !)

(I wonder if the shareholders would have done better if a larger divi was paid or share buybacks done....instead of using the cashflow to make this acquisition....last big acquisition was over priced and shareholders lost a lot of money as a result....)

one can see possible cross selling benefits etc....but perhaps a lot of that was already included in the price paid for Fletchers...and cross selling possibilities is perhaps only in the direction from FIF to Fletchers rather than in the other direction
-----

one might argue that FIF was 50% undervalued at 60p....as its takeover value...

issuing a large number of FIF shares as part of the acquisition cost could be argued to be like giving away assets to the sellers of Fletchers, ..and one wonders whether FIF could have done something to have got the share price up before doing the acquisition, such as presentations, higher divi, a bonus divi announcement for X months in future etc.

----

Risk
one might argue that FIF could have stayed as it was, and could have increased its divi to say 3p (from 6p EPS, after tax) which would have been a 5% divi wrt 60p share price. Or even higher if the cash was not needed.
If all of the 6p EPS was paid out as a divi then one could argue the share price would have gone to 120p to give a yield of 5%.
With little risk to FIF shareholders.
Whereas the acquisition infers a level of risk, as well as opportunities perhaps.

Be interesting to see how the share price and EPS performs over coming years and how it compares to a share price of 120p, if 6p divi had been paid from the old FIF.
------

Last big acquisition that FIF made, 5 or so years later....and with turnover doubled after the acqusition of each part to the merger....
the share price was 2/3rd of the price paid for the acquisition !!
(some ppl have had doubts about the legality of that deal, whether to benefit shareholders (ref. the LAW) or the chairman.....who gained by selling X Million shares at arguably a false high price....to make him richer. Using his votes and those of David Marshall (LFI). London mkts are a cesspit (Quindell, Cupid, MOS, Lamprell, Sefton Res. the list is endless !.....with few or no prosecutions)

Will this be the same ?!, share price of 2/3rd in 5 years time, 40p ?!

smithie6
26/11/2014
20:30
All very encouraging indeed. These should continue to do well. Business appears to have good momentum despite the difficult market conditions. Still undervalued.
topvest
26/11/2014
20:25
Were you at the agm jp?
bigfrocks
26/11/2014
20:10
all good so far with the acquisition - no surprises or shocks

it will take a year or three to get an acquisition of this size properly bedded in, but there should be evidence that it is going in the right direction (or not) as soon as the next trading statement

lots of hard work to be done, but I am quite confident it will work out well

jpjp100
26/11/2014
11:10
Just come out of the agm, duffy was very upbeat!
bigfrocks
26/11/2014
10:52
Well the market seems to like the statement put out by FIF today. After a long plateau we have a decent % movement up.
hatter2
26/11/2014
09:24
if anyone can understand those figures they may well be a good buy.
manrobert
25/11/2014
11:13
I see that on the 24th November Ruffer increased their holding in Finsbury from 16% to17%. Not a massive increase on an already substantial holding but quite a vote of confidence from Ruffer who are no mugs.
hatter2
14/11/2014
10:07
ex-dividend today, only 0.75p but a little divy nevertheless.
hatter2
13/11/2014
23:49
@wheeliedealer just done Twitter posts on p/e and dividend yields....you can also see at Front Page where it has embedded Twitter feed on www.wheeliedealer.weebly.com
pcourt
13/11/2014
15:26
Thanks for that Glaws2
hatter2
13/11/2014
15:24
In a nutshell it's the acquisition of Fletchers which makes FIF cheap. It quotes CNKS forecasts of profits growing to £10.3m (£6.6m in 2014) in 2015 and £13m in 2016.

It's the first time I have seen profit forecasts - CNKS seem to keep them close to their chest.

The other point made about the Fletcher's business is that it diversifies the business away from the main supermarkets with the lines of morning goods for coffee shops.

glaws2
13/11/2014
14:36
Blimey Glaws2, absolutely zero impact on the share price
Do you have a summary of the shares mag views?

hatter2
13/11/2014
14:20
Full page buy recommendation in Shares this week.
glaws2
08/11/2014
09:02
Does it really matter?
topvest
07/11/2014
15:54
Last trade of 6000 shares is a buy, not a sell.How many other sells are really buys?
smithers
05/11/2014
16:23
Yes I agree. Whilst I don't always agree with him, I do always listen! and the podcasts are a great way to gain more insight.
hutch_pod
05/11/2014
15:47
Hutch_Pod thanks for the correction; I think Paul Scott is doing a cracking good job with those podcasts.
hatter2
05/11/2014
15:35
Hi Hatter, I agree with the sentiment, but I think it was Edward Roskill on this occasion - just as worthy though perhaps..
hutch_pod
05/11/2014
15:13
Hutch_Pod that was a very enthusiastic opinion from Edward Roskill of the future for Finsbury after their reverse takeover of Fletchers Group. In my view any comments from such a respected investor as Edward Roskill ( not Boros, my error) are worthy of consideration.


Looks good to me but as usual all potential investors should DYOR.

hatter2
28/10/2014
10:30
I wonder if this podcast helped - Paul Scott's weekly interview, first stock mentioned FIF.
hutch_pod
28/10/2014
09:07
Maybe starting to sink in just what a good acquisition Fletchers Gp was ;o)
fozzie
27/10/2014
12:18
Fletchers - I met management at the time of the capital raising and quizzed them closely about the price paid for Fletchers. It seems good value because a) Fletchers own a freehold site worth £4m; b) Fletchers had tax losses of £18m and capital allowances to be claimed - worth in total around £7m; c) Fletchers food services business which is 46% of revenues grew at 9% CAGR for last 5 years - impressive; d) Fletchers has been well invested in with £14m of recent investment; e) run rate EBITDA for Fletchers was stated to be around £8m. So, price paid including value for tax losses/capital allowances was around £50m and run rate EBITDA of around £8m = say 6 x EBITDA which is a very fair price. For the enlarged group EBITDA runrate is around £19m and maintenance capex is around £5m pa = £14m cashflow less interest and tax.
eswr
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