Dragon-ukrainian Propert... Share Discussion Threads

[thelongandtheshortandthetall] 28/9/2009 21:22

ok mate ill have a look
rusw

cheers mate

[envirovision] 28/9/2009 15:15

sorry i ment rusw, not rusp. P are the pref shares, W are the warrants. Its just in case you were investing for a few years view minimum, like me. Makes sense as you'd get more for your money, so a bit of gearing involved.

[thelongandtheshortandthetall] 23/9/2009 19:27

thanks enviro

i dont really understand the risks and benefits regards to prefrence shares yet.

so prob pass on those for now.
will check out rus though.

cheers mate.

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 23:10

RUS or if you like them and have a long term outlook (like me) dont get waste your money on RUS get RUSP before its in the money.

[thelongandtheshortandthetall] 22/9/2009 23:07

envirovsion

im gunna get myself some of these. can you surggest any other property shares worth me investigating?

been in oil shares and want to diversefi.

very grateful and thanks in advance

[simon gordon] 22/9/2009 15:41

Points well made guys.

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 15:13

thanks concure, clearly hes not really done any research as he said:

DUPD looks cheap, but not as cheap as UCP. India looks a much better bet than Ukraine (see recent IMF issues) and DUPD's properties are just land which may or may not be developed.

well i would disagree it has stacks of cash & does not have the gearing of ucp, secondly india is a long term growth story yes, but ukraine has fallen further quicker, the big bounce will come in the economy with the elections early next year, the bounce will be larger than the bounce india has allready seen recovery will be quicker. (obvously imo)and a number of key projects are progressing well as for Sadok Vishnevyj, this is a fully completed gated community sale or rent with gym swimming, massus services the lot and puts most residences in the uk to shame.

then he says
"Ukraine's real estate market has been among the country's worst- hit sectors, with property values falling as much as 60 per cent since November." now if your talking as a whole including farm land and industrial areas in odd areas of the country, then perhaps, but absolutly not the kind of top sites in kiev that only DUPD are involved in.

I can't immediate tell why DUPD doesn't seem to have been effected by the massacre of the Ukraine currency against US dollars.

well thats pretty simple, its capital is all held in dollar accounts!

DUPD also seems to have written very little value off its holdings whereas UCP has substantially written down its portfolio (34% since March 2008). In particular it is holding $122m of land prepayments at cost. Firstly most of it is now valued at or well below aquaisition value so they have been pretty conservative allready, moreover extensive value adding progress has been made since aquiring, e.g:

•ON MARCH 5, KYIV DISTRICT ARCHITECTURAL COUNCIL APPROVED THE NEW MASTER PLAN OF GREEN HILLS COTTAGE COMMUNITY (WWW.GREEN-HILLS.COM.UA);

•ON APRIL 6, THE STATE EXPERTISE AUTHORITY ISSUED THE POSITIVE CONCLUSION FOR THE PROJECT DOCUMENTATION OF MYKOLAIV RETAIL CENTRE (HENRYLAND PROJECT)

•ON APRIL, 10, A TOTAL OF 38 INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY ACTS WERE RECEIVED FOR EACH OF THE PROPERTIES IN THE SADOK VISHNEVYJ RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY;

•ON APRIL 30, KYIV ARCHITECTURAL ADMINISTRATION APPROVED THE PROJECT DOCUMENTATION OF THE "AVENUE" SHOPPING MALL (KOMAROVA PROJECT);

•ON MAY 18, CONCEPT DESIGN HAS BEEN DEVELOPED BY COLLIERS INTERNATIONAL (MOSCOW) FOR THE SHOPPING CENTRE IN KREMENCHUG (GLANGATE PROJECT);

•ON MAY 25, KYIV COUNCIL APPROVED LAND REZONING FOR OBOLON RESIDENTIAL TOWERS;

•ON MAY 26, THE STATE EXPERTISE AUTHORITY ISSUED THE POSITIVE CONCLUSION FOR THE PROJECT DOCUMENTATION OF SEVASTOPOL RETAIL CENTRE (GLANGATE PROJECT);

•ON MAY 29, PROJECT WORKS ON THE PART OF SOCIAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR RIVIERA VILLAS COMMUNITY
(www.r-v.com.ua) have been completed;

•ON JUNE 12, A TOTAL OF 178 INDIVIDUAL STATE ACTS WERE OBTAINED AS PER NEWLY APPROVED MASTER PLAN OF THE GREEN HILLS COMMUNITY;

•ON JUNE, 24 THE STATE EXPERTISE AUTHORITY ISSUED THE POSITIVE CONCLUSION FOR THE PROJECT DOCUMENTATION OF VINNITSA RETAIL CENTRE (HENRYLAND PROJECT);

•ON JUNE 28, CONSTRUCTION WORKS ON THE THREE SHOW HOMES AT RIVIERA VILLAS COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, WITH INTERIOR RENOVATION WORKS CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS;

•ON JUNE 30, ALL WORKS FOR INSTALLING COMMUNICATION LINES IN THE GREEN HILLS COMMUNITY WERE COMPLETED AS WELL AS CONSTRUCTION OF THE FIRST 4 SHOWCASE HOMES;

•ON JUNE, 30 ALL WORKS CONNECTING UTILITIES TO THE SHOW HOMES AT RIVIERA VILLAS COMMUNITY AS WELL AS CONSTRUCTION OF ACCESS ROAD TO THE COMMUNITY WERE COMPLETED;

[dasv] 22/9/2009 15:05

Simon - the problems with the Ukraine are well documented. However I feel some of the points made on the thread are invalid. Indeed some part of the articles cited make a bullish case for investing in the Ukraine. The more negative articles are dated March and April 2009. The recent news on the IMF is of concern and is a very recent article however it ends with the observation that the Ukraine has posted growth in the last quarter. I.e. it may have turned a corner.

DUPD has $88.5m cash and a market cap of £70m with a discount to NAV of 76%. So even if they haven't completed marking assets to market there is a sufficient cushion in the valuation.

I do however agree that this stock is not for widows and orphans and one should size one's stake accordingly.

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 14:42

Its probably improved a lot since i subscribed, im talking about the days when it used to get its data from a teletext feed!

[simon gordon] 22/9/2009 14:42

Enviro,

Been too busy to link the chart by Fingers, glad you found it.

I asked Scburbs and Nickduk for their views on DUPD, it is on the UCP thread, dated last night.

Good fortune.

[dasv] 22/9/2009 14:33

yeah it's a good system. the more I use it the more I find it indispensable.

[katylied] 22/9/2009 14:29

poor, poor, didums... pompous is what
pompous does. Maybe you will learn,
maybe not, can't say I care...

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 14:21

lol. by the way great chart, used to have updata once myself very nice.

[dasv] 22/9/2009 14:18

definite inverse correlation between market cap of stock and pond-life on threads.

-----

FWIW my 2 cents point and figure on daily with various box sizes gives active upside targets.

With this box size, 77.5 is a target.

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 14:16

May also look into a premium listing, you can see people who appear from no where then pretend they've left, then hang around making silly comments never bringing any research just adding noise and trying to get personal at every opportunity with others. Seen it on lots of other threads.

[jlp4] 22/9/2009 13:45

Envirovision - sounds like a great name for a thread!

[katylied] 22/9/2009 13:35

envirovision - 22 Sep'09 - 13:09 - 70 of 71

Didn't you say you were out, thought you'd gone?

So you don't just read your own posts?
There maybe hope for you yet...

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 13:21

From fingers £1 thread

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 13:09

"The truth is, the property valuations are near worthless." Stupid comment really you're trying to me tell property values have fallen 95%.

Didn't you say you were out, thought you'd gone?

[katylied] 22/9/2009 12:58

The truth is, the property valuations are near worthless
where there is no market for the property/land.
Still, keep up the waffle, you will likely
convince yourself eventually...

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 12:55

I might start a new thread, try to get more advfn folk involved, maybe:

£128.7 Million worth of property, get it for £5 Million.

What do you think?

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 12:01

Nice to have you aboard, this thread can get a little lonely. I took a mad punt in eee recently at 2p and sold for 7p. However i am puzzled why its been driven so high and why so many people piled in after that. I can only imagine it had a few posters with big followings talk it up? Im very focused on property companies outside europe, but only those who are clearly going to survive.

[jlp4] 22/9/2009 11:36

Envirovision

I was in eee, but after your comments on that board, and some subsequent digging, I am in agreement with you and have sold up there for 30% profit, and ploughed the cash in here.

Rediculous price

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 11:00

Facinating, offer moved up a penny, i smell some smart money coming in soon.

[envirovision] 22/9/2009 10:41

I am now holding a very sound stake here for the future.