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[ihavenoclue] 15/2/2008 13:01

ihavenoclue - 9 Jan'08 - 12:24 - 2997 of 3011 edit


"Before the new agreement, a new IVA was worth around £2,700 to an IP, plus a monthly management fee of £78, giving a total income per IVA of about £7,400. Based on the new system, IPs are now likely to receive about a third as much income per IVA from an the average-sized problem debt."

This will effectively kill off DEBT's ability to operate IVA's IMHO

ihavenoclue - 9 Jan'08 - 12:25 - 2998 of 3011 edit


twenty ... i agree it is good for the sector but that doesn't include DEBT who couldn't operate IVA's profitably at £4,000 let alone £2,500 average now.

twentyoneeleven - 9 Jan'08 - 14:07 - 2999 of 3011


They never said they "couldn't" operate profitably, but rather they "may not". Until we know the exact figures involved, we can only guess at profitability levels. But with the number of IVA cases predicted to shoot up in 2008, the increased number of cases could very well offset any decrease in margins!

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I hate to say i told you so !!

[jschwartz] 15/2/2008 08:33

good.
i was hoping for a takeover though!
seems like a medium to long term play now.
i await valuation from media.

[mrphil] 15/2/2008 08:15

What's everybody's take on the sell off then?

[jdschwartz] 03/2/2008 17:33

wheres this early january announcement then board??

[johndee] 02/2/2008 23:48

i guess many egg clients will be looking for debt management companies now...........lol

[johndee] 02/2/2008 23:47

debt management is much better for majority of people...many done IVA's when they should never have..................

[mrphil] 29/1/2008 10:09

Pretty frustrating though!

[cawainw] 25/1/2008 18:21

No news is good news!

[jdschwartz] 12/1/2008 21:34

agreed.
see non-iva figures in results.
not all bad!

[twentyoneeleven] 10/1/2008 22:14

Sorry, but if IVAs are not bringing in some form of profit, why are they still processing an average of 160 a month? Surely the fees they are receiving for these now are more-or-less in line with the agreement that is currently being concluded ... or are you suggesting they are still being paid under the old fee structure still? I really can't see that being the case with the fuss creditors kicked up last year! IMO DEBT will recover along with the rest of the sector. There's going to be a drastic increase in business for all in this sector over the next twelve months!

[ihavenoclue] 10/1/2008 19:51

twentyoneeleven - 9 Jan'08 - 14:07 - 2999 of 3000


They never said they "couldn't" operate profitably, but rather they "may not".

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That was back when they were getting £4k an IVA ... now it will be more like £2.7k. They won't be able to operate them !!

[smashingguy] 09/1/2008 14:17

DDont think you need towait to theyear end for the 6p target

think you will see in sooner, how much cash is this haemmoraging?

[twentyoneeleven] 09/1/2008 14:07

They never said they "couldn't" operate profitably, but rather they "may not". Until we know the exact figures involved, we can only guess at profitability levels. But with the number of IVA cases predicted to shoot up in 2008, the increased number of cases could very well offset any decrease in margins!

[ihavenoclue] 09/1/2008 12:25

twenty ... i agree it is good for the sector but that doesn't include DEBT who couldn't operate IVA's profitably at £4,000 let alone £2,500 average now.

[ihavenoclue] 09/1/2008 12:24

"Before the new agreement, a new IVA was worth around £2,700 to an IP, plus a monthly management fee of £78, giving a total income per IVA of about £7,400. Based on the new system, IPs are now likely to receive about a third as much income per IVA from an the average-sized problem debt."

This will effectively kill off DEBT's ability to operate IVA's IMHO

[twentyoneeleven] 08/1/2008 20:40

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion, but mine is rather more to the upside here as opposed to any further downward movement! With predictions of in excess of 120,000 personal insolvencies due to be applied for this year, I think a significant recovery across the sector is on the cards!

[moob] 08/1/2008 20:28

Hi 21-11

I feel the company has no access to funding and also have to work hard noit to breach the lending provider's criteria

ie. im expecting a profit warning

[twentyoneeleven] 08/1/2008 20:18

Bold prediction for a date which is 358 days away! Why exactly do you think sub 6p moob ... what are your calculations for this number?

[moob] 08/1/2008 20:15

sub 6p by the year end i reckon

[twentyoneeleven] 08/1/2008 20:12

Hard Work ... DEBT have never been "out of the IVA market", but rather suspended any direct advertising (TV, Radio) in the later stages of 2007 following the well documented spat between IVA providers and creditors. The "Interim Results" published in December however() showed that they are still working on an average of around 165 IVA cases each month and obviously if a resolution between Insolvency Practitioners and creditors has now been reached, this number could increase dramatically!

As an aside, their IVA resources (staff) were not transferred to the loan business side of things, but rather to the debt management division that was created last July () and I'm sure there isn't too much stopping them being redeployed back to the IVA division if and when things take off there again?

[hard work] 08/1/2008 19:32

21-11,
Do you think DEBT will try to come back in to the market? After all, I thought they'd re-assigned their IVA resources to the loan business

[twentyoneeleven] 08/1/2008 19:29

Peace Breaks Out In The IVA Sector...



Dealing with dodgy debt
Created: 8 January 2008
Written by: Jonas Crosland

A truce has been called between leading lenders and providers of individual voluntary arrangements (IVAs) that should mark an end to the bitter acrimony that plagued insolvency practitioners for much of last year.

While IVAs have only recently become a subject of serious contention, they have actually been around for some time - they were introduced in 1986 as part of the Insolvency Act, primarily for use by small businesses. An IVA is an agreement between an overburdened debtor and his or her creditors to repay a fixed monthly amount for five years. In return, all interest charges are suspended and creditors agree not to pursue any further claims on the money outstanding. The amount repaid can be as little as 25 per cent of the outstanding amount. This may sound like a raw deal for creditors but it is better than making someone bankrupt, which is not only a costly process but carries with it the prospect of getting back no money at all. However, after two decades, lenders began to feel the rules of the game needed some changing.

So, following a year at loggerheads, IVA providers, working as insolvency practitioners (IPs) and represented by the Debt Resolution Forum, have thrashed out an agreement with the credit industry, represented by the British Bankers' Association . The deal incorporates a new fee structure and sets industry standards for advertising, advice, information and documentation. And with the big high street banks signing up, IVA providers can at last start to look forward to more visible revenue streams, although the business will be done on much less favourable terms.

The new fee structure is not yet set in stone, but the broad principle is that instead of receiving an upfront commission, IPs will now earn their income from the first four or five months of contributions made by a debtor. Clearly, this provides an incentive to ensure that debtors can meet their agreed payments while also encouraging IPs to make sure they repay as much as possible..

Before the new agreement, a new IVA was worth around £2,700 to an IP, plus a monthly management fee of £78, giving a total income per IVA of about £7,400. Based on the new system, IPs are now likely to receive about a third as much income per IVA from an the average-sized problem debt. Still, creditors and debtors as well as IVA providers had been happy with the old way of doing things until it became clear that some unscrupulous operators were pushing individuals into inappropriate IVAs and taking their commission up front. In many cases, once the IPs had pocketed their cash, debtors failed to maintain payments forcing banks to write off increasing amounts of bad debt. This had the unpleasant side-effect of highlighting just how sloppy their lending criteria had been in the first place. So, last year, creditors put their foot down.

Without the approval of 75 per cent of the creditors, an application for an IVA will fail. This was painful all round, but hit the legitimate IVA providers the hardest. Accuma , for example, saw its share price plummet by 92 per cent to just 21p at one stage. All this came at a time when margins were already being squeezed by increased advertising costs and a sharp rise in the number of IP firms, to over 600. Obviously, the situation could not be left unresolved, but it has taken a year of negotiations for the truce to be declared.

It looks like this could have come in the nick of time. Accountancy firm Grant Thornton is predicting that personal insolvencies will jump this year to 120,000, almost triple the amount in 2004, and the average owed by problem debtors has now hit £30,000. So the potential increase in demand could mitigate some of the pressure the new fee arrangement will put on margins.

Indeed, after the UK's annual Christmas spending binge, like anything else taken to excess, there is usually a hangover. And for many consumers this really starts to set in when bills begin to land on the doormat in January. In fact, the frenzied spending of someone else's money has now reached the stage where consumer debt is greater than the value of the UK's annual gross domestic product (GDP), and current estimates suggest that over 9m credit-card holders are struggling to keep up with their payments. What's more, there is evidence to suggest that over 4m people are still paying off debts from Christmas 2006.

In previous years, extended credit facilities and the ability to pay off debt by remortgaging the house effectively put off the evil day when loans had to be repaid. But neither of these options is now on the table. Credit card companies are cutting borrowing limits and applying much tougher lending criteria, while stagnating house prices have severely curtailed the ability to remortgage. And it gets worse. Around 1.4m homes face mortgage repayment increases of up to £200 a month when fixed-rate deals taken out two years ago come to an end, due to interest rate rises over the past two years. Add to that the spiralling cost of gas, electricity and petrol, and the picture is pretty gloomy. A vast majority of people in debt will get by with a bit of time-honoured belt-tightening, but for some it is already too late. So, having taken the pain of the new fee structure, IPs will now be rubbing their hands.

[twentyoneeleven] 31/12/2007 06:59

"moob - 31 Dec'07 - 00:19 - 2988 of 2988

loanmaker must be curling its toes and dying in current markets

after all, where will it borrow from!!!???"

Another one who obviously hasn't read the recent RNS! See my post 2984 moob, if it really is too difficult for you to actually read the whole RNS!!!

[moob] 31/12/2007 00:19

loanmaker must be curling its toes and dying in current markets

after all, where will it borrow from!!!???