Clipper Ventures Share Discussion Threads

[8trader] 02/11/2008 21:19

Wonder where this will end, will Mr Knox continue to buy right upto
30% then launch a bid ?

Never seen a stock perform so poorly on the back of such intense director
purchases, but for him he must be loving this getting a lot of his company
back on the cheap.

[deswalker] 02/11/2008 18:47

mesquida - because if it transpires that they do attempt an MBO then there will be questions about why they didn't declare a mandatory bid for the company upon going over 30% in aggregate. RNJ & WW would clearly be judged to be acting in concert with each other and these regulations dictate that they be treated as if they are one person.

I think you're being a little unfair on Bob Dench (NED) if you say he has no real City experience ...

Born in 1950, was appointed non-executive director in July 2003. For most of his career he worked at Barclays Plc during which time he spent several years on the Board of the Retail Bank and Private Client businesses. His last appointment, before leaving in 2004 was as the Managing Director of Barclays Investment Management.

He also holds NED positions with Axa plc and the Paragon Group of Companies and mentors the senior team at Troika, a financial services consultancy based in Jermyn Street, London, in respect of its own business strategies. He is a keen amateur sailor.

[mesquida] 02/11/2008 17:12

Des - why do you say that any attempted MBO would surely fall foul of concert party regulations? And as regards your suggestion of an e-mail to the non-execs perhaps I could remind you that we recently lost the only non-exec who had any real City experience. I am beginning to wonder just why he walked when he did! I am convinced that this is going private, and the only consolation is that RNJ/WW will not be able to offer less than what they have recently paid in the market. Any more than that would be a bonus, but why should RNJ/WW feel the need to be generous when the investment community has been so reluctant to put this stock on a proper rating and when there are still obviously sellers out there simply waiting for an opportunity to jump ship!

[deswalker] 31/10/2008 15:07

I've just noticed that the number bought by RNJ corresponds exactly to those supposedly held by Chelverton Asset Management so it is almost certainly them who sold.

[deswalker] 31/10/2008 15:02

AGM starts in an hour. Hopefully somebody will be there and willing/able to report their findings. I'm 250 miles away so didn't make it this year.

I still believe that these purchases are purely mopping up distressed stock at a bargain price. The issue about taking it private is not one I'm that concerned about. RNJ and WW are well over the 30% and any subsequent attempted MBO would surely fall foul of concert party regulations.

It might just be worth an email to the non-execs to check that they are monitoring the situation.

[scburbs] 31/10/2008 14:35

As I said before it makes me feel a lot more confident that the man in the know is buying big time! Let's hope he doesn't try and take it private too cheaply!

[deswalker] 31/10/2008 12:14

RNJ just bought another 3% at 7.375p. Now owns 17.1%.

[joan of arc] 28/10/2008 21:10

As an aside support the Kill the Spread campaign. It is in all our interests!!

See below :-




www.killthespread.com



October 2008 (2)

Dear Supporter,

We wrote to you earlier this month with details of the Kill the Spread campaign objectives - since then word has really started to spread! Below are the links to the latest news and articles written about the campaign over the last two months. Were you aware that the London Stock Exchange is facing a High Court claim of anti-competitive behaviour from Plus Markets??

Change we need.....so what's next?

Since we last wrote to you, we have been approached by several brokers, wanting to know more about the Campaign and offering their assistance!

We were very encouraged by this – it's comforting to know we aren't the only ones complaining about the AIM and its Market Maker system. It's killing their business too!

We have learned a lot from their perspective on the way the AIM works and have now started discussions on some interesting initiatives including:

1/ Ways of creating an alternative Broker account for AIM shares, which could effectively cross stock between buyers and sellers, bypassing Market Makers and avoiding spreads.
2/ Creating a "ring-fenced" nominee account, offering guarantees to shareholders that their stock will not be loaned in the Market to cover short selling.

We think these could be very compelling propositions for Investors and any views or feedback you could give us on this would be very helpful; [e-mail]

We are also discussing ways forward to achieve the big systemic changes we are looking for with Direct Market Access, and we hope to be able to update you shortly with some very interesting developments.

We are finding that there is a willingness to listen to the voice of the Private Investor, but to turn these initiatives into constructive measures, we need to prove we have sufficient numbers behind the Campaign.......... and this is where you come in!

Hitting those Numbers!

At this crucial stage your support is essential and we are now asking you to make a really big effort on behalf of Kill the Spread.....

As a growing grass roots movement, we are now being taken seriously. We want our demands to be implemented as soon as possible and the only way we can ensure this happens is to prove beyond questionable doubt that a significant number of Private Investors are totally dissatisfied with the way the AIM market currently operates and are demanding change.

In simple terms - we need to get the numbers up - and fast!


5,000 supporters = ACTION!

Our target is to get to up to 5,000 supporters. We're getting there – but we need to get there quicker!! We are currently up to just over 1,300 supporters on the Poll - so there is still a way to go.

We are getting publicity but we really need the word to spread......So please, make sure you tell as many Investors you know about Kill the Spread.

You can spread the word in the many ways:

Talk to others Investors about the campaign
Post a link to the site on your Blogs
Post a link to the site on Bulletin-boards,
Tell people in you Share Club/Investor Group
Tell Everyone!!

Ask people to sign up at the website


and get them to complete the on-line poll



it won't cost you anything and will only take a few minutes of your time.

Help give us a real push – and remember if every supporter brings in just 3 new supporters - our numbers will quadruple!!

We are now on the brink of making a real difference for all Small Cap Investors - so a big push for more supporters right now is just what we need!

Thank you once again for supporting Kill the Spread – with your support change really is possible!


Kind regards



Campaign Coordinator
Kill The Spread

www.killthespread.com
[e-mail]

Please email us at [e-mail] - if you want to know more about Campaign - all question & comments are most welcome!

Recent News:


The London Stock Exchange is facing a High Court claim of anti-competitive behaviour from Plus Markets




Great Article by Tom Bulford





another mention from Dominic Frisby
(mention is at the end of this article)

[joan of arc] 28/10/2008 21:09

As an aside support the Kill the Spread campaign. It is in all our interests!!

See below :-




www.killthespread.com



October 2008 (2)

Dear Supporter,

We wrote to you earlier this month with details of the Kill the Spread campaign objectives - since then word has really started to spread! Below are the links to the latest news and articles written about the campaign over the last two months. Were you aware that the London Stock Exchange is facing a High Court claim of anti-competitive behaviour from Plus Markets??

Change we need.....so what's next?

Since we last wrote to you, we have been approached by several brokers, wanting to know more about the Campaign and offering their assistance!

We were very encouraged by this – it's comforting to know we aren't the only ones complaining about the AIM and its Market Maker system. It's killing their business too!

We have learned a lot from their perspective on the way the AIM works and have now started discussions on some interesting initiatives including:

1/ Ways of creating an alternative Broker account for AIM shares, which could effectively cross stock between buyers and sellers, bypassing Market Makers and avoiding spreads.
2/ Creating a "ring-fenced" nominee account, offering guarantees to shareholders that their stock will not be loaned in the Market to cover short selling.

We think these could be very compelling propositions for Investors and any views or feedback you could give us on this would be very helpful; [e-mail]

We are also discussing ways forward to achieve the big systemic changes we are looking for with Direct Market Access, and we hope to be able to update you shortly with some very interesting developments.

We are finding that there is a willingness to listen to the voice of the Private Investor, but to turn these initiatives into constructive measures, we need to prove we have sufficient numbers behind the Campaign.......... and this is where you come in!

Hitting those Numbers!

At this crucial stage your support is essential and we are now asking you to make a really big effort on behalf of Kill the Spread.....

As a growing grass roots movement, we are now being taken seriously. We want our demands to be implemented as soon as possible and the only way we can ensure this happens is to prove beyond questionable doubt that a significant number of Private Investors are totally dissatisfied with the way the AIM market currently operates and are demanding change.

In simple terms - we need to get the numbers up - and fast!


5,000 supporters = ACTION!

Our target is to get to up to 5,000 supporters. We're getting there – but we need to get there quicker!! We are currently up to just over 1,300 supporters on the Poll - so there is still a way to go.

We are getting publicity but we really need the word to spread......So please, make sure you tell as many Investors you know about Kill the Spread.

You can spread the word in the many ways:

Talk to others Investors about the campaign
Post a link to the site on your Blogs
Post a link to the site on Bulletin-boards,
Tell people in you Share Club/Investor Group
Tell Everyone!!

Ask people to sign up at the website


and get them to complete the on-line poll



it won't cost you anything and will only take a few minutes of your time.

Help give us a real push – and remember if every supporter brings in just 3 new supporters - our numbers will quadruple!!

We are now on the brink of making a real difference for all Small Cap Investors - so a big push for more supporters right now is just what we need!

Thank you once again for supporting Kill the Spread – with your support change really is possible!


Kind regards



Campaign Coordinator
Kill The Spread

www.killthespread.com
[e-mail]

Please email us at [e-mail] - if you want to know more about Campaign - all question & comments are most welcome!

Recent News:


The London Stock Exchange is facing a High Court claim of anti-competitive behaviour from Plus Markets




Great Article by Tom Bulford





another mention from Dominic Frisby
(mention is at the end of this article)

[8trader] 23/10/2008 22:43

I saw a penny stock with a similar market cap announce awful results,
very little turnover, losses over 1 million and a poor outlook and
they finish unchanged !

It shows how completely bonkers this market is when they punish a stock
at one stage with a drop of 40% just for forcasting level profits especially
when the per is less than 3 and they have such a strong balance sheet !

[joan of arc] 22/10/2008 19:18

Well what you say Des also makes sense. Either way we wouldn't end up any worse off than we are now.

Are you sure they can't vote, after all a hostile bid only has to get 51% so why should it be different for them?

[8trader] 22/10/2008 17:46

I'm astonished to return to see the mm's opened this at 6p offer, no wonder
they would not let anybody buy any size at that price !!!

This is just crazy, i cant understand it, do mm's expect companies in a
recession to beat forcasts by 10-20%, was there any need for this update,
why is a director buying 2 million at a huge premium ahead of today's news,
this has to be one of the best penny holds around, there's a bid coming and
you can see they hope to get as much as possible on the cheap, i bet the
brokers were ringing around other large holders hoping to arrange a large
cross at 7.5p mid price, if he is buying big at 9p he will bite their hands
off for sub 8p stock again.

When i went out i expected the bid to open the same and maybe the offer back
down to 9p but 5.75p, only a idiot would bail out at that price and the mm's
will love to see more selling at 7p !

[deswalker] 22/10/2008 11:24

To understand their conservative use of cash one needs to look back a few years. Back then they were forced into a placing because their bank pulled its line after the demise of the privately owned 'Challenge' company. They moaned at the time that there was absolutely no operational reason for this (as they subsequently proved) but the bank randomly wrote down the value of their collateral (boats) and had them over a barrel. They don't anymore.

In this environment cash is king. I have absolutely no issue with holding the divi right now.

If they do go for an MBO then they can't vote themselves for a start, they need 75% of everybody else and would have to sell it on multiples. They could try an say they're willing to pay 30% EBITDA/EV (still very cheap with control and the whole brand) but this would mean an share price of 15.5p which is 100% above where we are now.

To be honest I think a far more likely reason for RNJ's purchases is to protect against an unwelcome lowball offer from elsewhere. That makes perfect sense to me.

IMO, DYOR etc ...

[joan of arc] 22/10/2008 11:03

I agree with Mesquida. If the shares were such fantastic value then they would be daft not to be thinking about an MBO - after all no one runs their own business as a charity for other PIs . Lets supppose RNJ and WW have only ever discussed such an idea 'off-site' with no telephone calls, memos or anything else in writing - who could, or how could anyone, prove they were 'planning' it (and on the AIM market who would care!). Also I, as I said in an earlier post, cannot see where the cash flow problem is, the buffer they have should cover expenses/running costs. On the other hand leave the cash in the business, and then you can use it to pay for the MBO! Finally the RNS smells - there was no justification for it other than some ulterior motive!

I think that we should watch this space and see what if any other purchases are made.

[deswalker] 22/10/2008 10:45

mesquida,

Between them RNJ and William Ward now own 33%. If they planned on an MBO then they would be deemed to be acting in concert and would have to declare immediately. Any silence would thus indicate that they are not intending such a move and in any case they would need 75% agreement of those shares excluding their own holdings which would require a bid much higher than the current price.

I think they just see the share as absurdly cheap and are happy to take distressed sellers out when they can. It's a shame that the company hasn't felt able to buy back stock but they clearly want to keep as much cash in the business as possible to avoid any reliance on bank finance. Very sensible.

The trading statement today was bizarrely worded. As you say there were no external forecasts, it had already been marked down due to recession fears and we knew that the divi was on the back burner for a while.

Excluding the talk of internal downgrades and no longer expecting profit growth, the rest read much better than I was expecting. Yesterday I would have been over the moon if I thought they could repeat last year's performance, today they say that is achievable and the share price dropped 40%. Shame there was only 10k available at 6p but I'm glad I got them.

Des

[eggbird] 22/10/2008 10:32

It is strange indeed, oh well, lets see how things pan out in terms of further director buying in the coming weeks..

[mesquida] 22/10/2008 10:24

Is RNJ trying to frighten shareholders out before taking it private at a derisory pice? Hope that I am wrong but I cannot see why they felt the need to make today´s statement - after all, none of us were expecting higher profits this year, and yet the statement implies that we had previously had guidance to the contrary. RNJ needs to be careful that he is not accused of misleading the market - if he buys on the dip today then it will leave a very nasty taste in my mouth.

[love it] 22/10/2008 08:21

as i said well over done he would buy millions an that price. you could not buy at 6p they only let you have a 10k

[deswalker] 22/10/2008 08:21

Well I just bought 10k more. That's all I could get online.

No need to be sorry. It's incredibly illiquid and the mms just see profit warning and adjust accordingly. They don't look to see that it did over 3p eps last year and is now foresacting something similar.

Current market cap is 2.34 mill, EV is 1.36 mill (nearly a mill net cash) and last year it did 1.52 EBITDA, so we have a forecast EBITDA/EV = 112%. It should be trading at three times this level at least.

NTAV stood at 11.32p per share at last results. This discounts any value to the brands and the low price at which the old boats are in the books.

R Knox-J has spent £250k over the last month at about 9p average. I can't imagine there's much stock around at anything below 12p ish.

[tyranosaurus] 22/10/2008 08:18

I`m speechless.

Director bought shares with inside knowledge that profits warning was coming !!

I`ve just pinched myself to make sure I`m awake.

[catswhiskas] 22/10/2008 08:14

Thats got to be a first director purchases ahead of a profits warning lol !

[love it] 22/10/2008 08:06

that has to be wrong down 35% madness. but when to buy i dont hold at the moment sorry to se this though guys