Cleantech Lithium Share Discussion Threads

[realale] 08/4/2002 17:40

Cheers 4d for that unbiased view.

Minuteman, there seems to be over 300k bought after
the delayed sell yet no further rise in the price.
Looking at it again you cannot rule out some of those
being sells with WINS as they were quoting 7.5-9p and
so it's possible to improve on their price maybe but
if not then I do believe there's a seller still.

[4d] 08/4/2002 17:17

My cautious opinion posted elsewhere when you first mentioned them.......

I've had a quick look, and a few things worry me slightly.

Briefly..

Price - 10.3p
Shares in issue - 40.11M
Market Cap - £4.1M

Looking at what is actually there - as reported for the 6 months to 31st Aug 2001 - then we have...

1. Turnover of £502,000. Equivalent to around £1M p.a. Hence a price to turover ratio around 4.

2. Turnover growth?? - A quick calculation will show that in the 6 month period ended Feb 2001 turover must have been around £450,000. Hence turnover appears to be have grown by just £50,000 from the 6 months ended Feb 2001 to the 6 months ended Aug 2001. Hardly breathtaking at all considering the valuation, and the companies young nature.

3. Admin expenses of over £1M on runover of £0.5M. Operating loss in the 6 months almost £0.9M - i.e. £1.8M p.a.

4. Tangible assets of of £153,000 - less than 4% of market cap.

5. Cash of £4.6M as of 31 Aug 2001 - The only real attraction. However this is down from £8.7M raised in May 2000, and £6.7M as of 31 Aug 2000. Almost all seems to have been blown on operating activities. Currently operating activities burning almost £1M every 6 months.

In November they paid £1.65M cash for Documedia. Hence allowing for just a £0.85M cash outflow for the 6 months to Mar, the cash position could well be down to around £2M by he end of March. Interest receivable - currently their main source of funds - is therefore clearly going to be much lower.

So based on the current accounts - i think the shares look highly valued, with just the cash pile - which is eroding fast - supporting the valuation.

Some of the things that concern me..

1. Printbynet.com >>

In July 2000 they bought 80% of Printbynet for £100,000, stating they would invest up to £1M in it over the next 2 years.

In Dec 2000 they update shareholders on Printbynet... "As expected, this deal is already generating economies of scale and allows joint development of specialist software. Volume through the site has exceeded our expectations and we are seeing significant month on month increases in orders"

Then - Out of the blue in Oct 2001 they announce the sale of Printbynet, to 'A Group of print professionals.' And thats about all we're told. So who Exactly bought this operation, and for how much?? And why were we not told these points??

Looking at the interims to Aug 2001 the company lists £365,000 of it's £500,000 turover as 'discontinued' along with £140,000 of the group operating loss. This isn't explained anywhere - the only thing we can assume is that these are the figures for Printbynet.

So was Printbynet really responsible for 73% of turnover in the period (although only 16% of the operating loss) ?? If so why sell?? And why give shareholders no info on the sale??

2. Documedia purchase >>

So they spent £1.65M on Documedia - But give very little information about the company other than that it was in receivership. Presumably they were in dire trouble to go in to receivership - how much do the company estimate it will will cost to turn things around?

3. Sudden director resignations >>

17th July 2000 - Chief Executive Jim Kachenmeister leaves the company by 'mutual and amicable' consent.

23rd July 2001 - Stephen Lovatt leaves with 'immediate effect.'

So still i see no reason to buy.

The main attraction therefore - and what seems to have attracted you - is the talk by the company that they will achieve £10M turnover in the year ended Feb 2002 and be trading profitability from the start of this year, i.e NOW.

Firstly such a statement appears a bit irresponsible to me - basically their claiming to be able to make £9.5M turover from Aug 2001 to the end of Feb 2002. As continuing operations only appears to have produced £135,000 turover in the previous 6 months - and growth is not breathtaking - one can only assume well over £9M turover in the 6 months will come from Documedia. In which case i feel much more info should be given about the purchase.

As for trading profitability? I take this with a pinch of salt until i see action. Documedia is obviously loss making and needs turning around. As the acquistion was announced just 10 days before results and this claim i fail to see how management can be so confident. As for the rest of the busioess - well it looks like it needs a miracle to operate profitability - and even if it does on such tiny turnover any profit will be very very small.

Who is the chairman Warren Tayler who owns almost a third of the company? Never heard of him?

Basically i think there are a lot of questions that need answering before i could consider buying this - especially about Documedia. I'll certainly view full year results with some interest.

Hope it works out for you - Just expressing my view after having a look.

4D

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 16:43

Real ale:

You still think there is a seller out there??

Regards

[realale] 08/4/2002 13:01

Definately a seller in the market though but
should get a lot of stocked cleared today if not
all looking at the steady stream of 1-5k delayed
buys going through.

[kermat] 08/4/2002 11:39

Just doubled my holding.

Seems to be no problem in buying stock at the moment

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 11:19

Good start to the financial year!

Hopefully the seller, will have finished now and we can get back to the business of making some cash.

Glad I topped up again at 6.75p last week. ;-))

[calleva] 08/4/2002 08:36

We seem to be getting results today, judging by the way the price is nudging up. Hold onto your hats!

[humbugg] 07/4/2002 23:03

Could someone please tell me when the results are due.

thanks in advance.

[minuteman] 06/4/2002 19:57

No problem Rangers:

I have edited the email out... I wanted to share it with you chaps & chapess's, but at the same time I don't want to do any damage to the trust / relationship I have built up with the chairman,

Hope you understand.

[rangers99] 06/4/2002 04:48

Minuteman, thanks for the update. A modicum of reassurance at least.

[dmhzx] 06/4/2002 00:20

To the guys asking about 'nominated advisers'. Companies on AIM must have one of these, it's a condition of having a listing. As far as I can tell, the only thing that 'nominated advisers' actually do is submit a hefty bill.

As to the share price, no idea what's going on at all. If someone sells £200 worth the price drops. If they issue news either good or bad the price goes down.
If we get two days of virtually all buys the price goes down.

I find it hard to believe that dropping the bid by nearly 20%, while leaving the offer at 7 is going to achieve much on the treeshaking philosophy, and certainly so far today nobody has shown any interest in being separated from their shares for 5 p.
The ways of MMs are indeed dark and mysterious.

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 16:53

Anyway, off on the lash now, have a good weekend

[aghumra] 05/4/2002 15:55

700k MM buy!

[kermat] 05/4/2002 15:18

Thanks for your efforts minuteman

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 15:12

ok, heres the sells he talked about! I think the MM's have gone so low on the bid so as to protect themselves against more selling for CGT purposes.

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 14:45

Keh?

What do you reckon? like I've always said, this is at least a 12 month play, and this will be the first rung of the ladder; announcing break even. It also makes perfect sence that institutions want to maximise their holdings tax wise, so that would make sense...but not as much!

Anyway, I'm in this, happy about the co and it's future.

your thoughts?

[calleva] 05/4/2002 14:37

"Hope this puts your minds at a little more ease" - how many do you have? ;-)

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 14:30

They are exact copies of my emails.

[calleva] 05/4/2002 14:25

You are kidding, right!

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 14:16

OK GUYS I will post my email to CTL and the reply that duely (and always comes back) with the hour.

I have edited it as you guys are all aware and to retain some trust.

regards

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 11:16

Well look at the print industry!

Canon UK was the first.

Familiar Names:- Kodak, Kolamazoo??, Fuji... they are the kind of names I had in my mind.

[calleva] 05/4/2002 11:00

Have it on good authority that there is a 40k buy coming through. Any idea who these "familiar names" are?

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 09:49

It may have dropped for the reasons above. You could be right with shrtages as there certainly seems to have been a load of buys this week.

70k was a buy though

Have just emailed the company to get a results date out of them.

[calleva] 05/4/2002 09:44

Maybe I'm being disagreeable this morning, but a sell @6.8 would not cause the bid to drop to 5.5 - I was quoted 6.8 for a purchase of 10000 early this morning, hence my conclusions. Keep up the research efforts and an open mind.