Cattles Share Discussion Threads

[grahamburn] 24/3/2010 10:20

SpectoACC. Still like to know how you know that the directors have definitively instigated a nil value claim with HMRC. Not been able to find any reference to this, apart from the "very unlikely" reference to which you refer. Not the same as a formal claim.

[spectoacc] 24/3/2010 10:16

You fundamentally misunderstand the situation Badhshah, as I've already tried to explain.

If there's a business left over, then it belongs to the creditors, not the shareholders. So yes: there could well be a viable business left at the end of all this. But no: it won't belong to the shareholders.

You need to understand that until the creditors are satisfied in full (& they'll end up at least a £billlion short of that), shareholders will get zero.

The directors, for various legal reasons, aren't able to say more than that it's "very unlikely" the shares will have any value. So look at their actions instead - they've instigated a "nil value" claim with the IR to hopefully eventually allow shareholders to take the tax losses.

[badhshah] 24/3/2010 08:54

I think catttles won't go under. It is mos likely that shareholders might get an offer of 5% of the value of restructured cattles.

[grahamburn] 23/3/2010 16:05

Just checked the HMRC bible on negligible value shares:



and Cattles aren't on there. So reckon it isn't worth claiming this year.

[spectoacc] 22/3/2010 07:29

Graham - agreed, though if it were me I'd probably try claiming it this tax year and let them challenge it. Does seem most likely to be next tax year, if not even later!

[grahamburn] 20/3/2010 18:06

Thanks, SpectoAcc.

Having now trawled back through the iii board (which I haven't looked at for ages), it would seem that the nil value claim isn't going to be confirmed by HMRC till at least the next tax year - and possibly later.

So, any CGT planning will have to wait!

[spectoacc] 20/3/2010 16:38

@grahamburn - I emailed them after someone had posted as much on the iii board.

And yes - sounds as if it could go either way with the IR accepting it ahead of the co actually being wound up (which as we know could still be a few yrs away).

[grahamburn] 20/3/2010 09:55

SpectoAcc. Curious to know where you saw the information that 'the company having put a "nil value" claim with the IR'.

The RNS of 16 December only stated at the end "Shareholders should therefore be aware that, in view of this and of the now substantial negative value of shareholders funds, the shares are likely to have little or no value." That is only a forward looking statement rather than evidence of a formal claim of nil value, so is unlikely to be accepted by the Revenue as a definitive fact for CGT purposes in the current tax year.

But maybe you have more recent information? Perhaps you would expand, especially as the year end is approaching.

[spectoacc] 20/3/2010 09:07

Badhshah - not sure what they can say or what interest it would be, the shares being worth nothing now (the co having put in a "nil value" claim with the IR).

[badhshah] 19/3/2010 22:52

The last regulatory update was in 25th November 2009, Isn't a time for a regulatory update now?

[puku] 01/3/2010 12:46

you can at some stage write to your taxman to seek "negligible Value" status but not whilst it still technically has a quote ,

[killieboy] 15/2/2010 21:14

SpectoAcc - Thanks, will file under "dog" and forget.

[spectoacc] 14/2/2010 08:59

They won't come back from suspension; they're running down the business for the benefit of banks/bondholders, & say it'll take 2-3 years.

Bit of a con I reckon; the only "value" shareholders have left is the tax loss, and the management can't even get that right. Though I'd have thought some chance the IR might accept a "nil value" claim before then, or that they might spin the co away from Cattles plc & wind it up before then.

[killieboy] 13/2/2010 19:00

Ron/Spectoacc Thanks but I dont do shorts (call me old fashioned). Will just have to wait til they come back from suspension and sell them for sweet nothing.

[spectoacc] 13/2/2010 17:26

No; will be a few years before it's declared at zero I fear.

You could close against a short, that's your only option for CGT loss this tax yr. Was a post some way above of someone asking for longs to close against. Would be worth it if you've big gains this tax year, since you can't carry CGT losses back (only forward).

[r0n] 13/2/2010 16:42

Dont think you can yet . It's not bust yet is it ?.

[killieboy] 12/2/2010 15:06

Help - how can I write these off against this years CGT? Thanks

[r0n] 05/2/2010 10:59

Didn,t even know welcome finance were in Russia !! interestings

[skweeble] 05/2/2010 10:50

RNS about staff reductions, but who the hell are Moscow PLC??

[spectoacc] 11/1/2010 12:18

A tax loss will come from it eventually; nothing more, no chance. Seems there's barely enough to cover the banks, let along the bondholders. Then there's the rest of the creditors, and finally at the bottom: shareholders.

[w.bramley] 11/1/2010 12:05

Like me, if you hold CTT there is little you can do but the stock on the back burner and consider it a loss, but hope something may come from it.