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CLLN Carillion Plc

14.20
0.00 (0.00%)
28 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Carillion Plc LSE:CLLN London Ordinary Share GB0007365546 ORD 50P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 14.20 - 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
0 0 N/A 0

Carillion Share Discussion Threads

Showing 5026 to 5047 of 12450 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  210  209  208  207  206  205  204  203  202  201  200  199  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
16/3/2017
08:26
RCT

put it this way, most working in the construction industry through the

1960`s / 1980`s on site not office won`t see their full retirement, too many

nasties next to no h&s , i can remember as an apprentice working next to

ceiling fixers installing asbestos tiles in huge office blocks , they had to be cut

and shaped lots of dust. not to mention lagging on pipes. met one of my old

buddies last year, he had lost count of the funerals he attended . even the van

drivers wife had died of asbestos related disease, through washing his overalls.

WJ.

w1ndjammer
16/3/2017
07:58
But what use is all that information unless you can compare it to other similar companies ? Is it better than the norm, is it worse, is it the same ? My own feeling is that there are too many variables to make any analysis worthwhile.
jaf1948
16/3/2017
07:52
WJ, is it available down to the detail of individual pensioners though? That is what I would really like to have so that I could build my own model.
rcturner2
16/3/2017
07:49
RCT

that info is out their if you look, i have read some of it in the last month
but did not save it. Think i made a comment somewhere.

WJ.

w1ndjammer
16/3/2017
07:28
What I would like to see is actually some very detailed numbers about the pension scheme, so that I can make up my own mind about whether the pension deficit is real or not. For example, how many pensioners are there, what is their age, how much are they currently paying out and so on.
rcturner2
15/3/2017
18:55
candid,
'any move in interest rates which is favorable to the pension deficit is negative to loans and debt'

That is both factually and financially inaccurate. If you don't know why, then I am not going to waste my time telling you since you are 'out of here'.

BTW, before I retired, I used to be an 'executive' for a large US company and I, along with most of my colleagues, used to hate overseas travel - long days, see nothing of the country except an airport and an office, and knackered when you get back.

jaf1948
15/3/2017
18:49
I agree that pension deficits often don't seem to make a lot of sense, and the changes in deficits can seem very arbitrary. However what is absolutely clear is that the equity holders are third in line behind the bond holders and the pensioners. So any squeeze in cash profits will hit the dividend first.
rcturner2
15/3/2017
18:03
"fairy tale ending"? This is an investment not a storybook. We are not looking for a princess charming to come and rescue us, just business as usual will do fine. Yes there will likely be hiccoughs on the way, and normally recoveries afterwards; if that possibility is too disagreeable, perhaps investing in the stock market is not for you...
edmundshaw
15/3/2017
18:03
Anyway guys I am out of here...no profits to be made
candid investor
15/3/2017
18:01
Of course there is a solution...there usually is...they could sell off the middle East and Canada businesses which are very low margins and a drain on management time and effort and use the cash to eliminate debt and invest in the UK based support services contracts which are lucrative and sustainable...but that would mean no overseas travel and the glamour and excitement that that brings for executives so don't hold your breath that that is what they will do.
candid investor
15/3/2017
17:58
The "contempt they have for the pensioners and investors"?

As an investor, I don't find the current dividend policy particularly contemptible. As for pensioners, they are not in control of the bond rates nor can they determine pension regulator policy on deficit calculations, so what action in particular makes you think they hold their pensioners in contempt?

edmundshaw
15/3/2017
17:50
Jaff...any move in interest rates which is favorable to the pension deficit is negative to loans and debt...so you are damned if they don't go up and saddled if they do...of course the debt markets are happy...they have first call on the profits that Carillion makes...they are sailing perilously close to the wind and without that fairy tale ending are dying slowly..any perilous event that does happen and they will die more quickly. Enjoy the dividend while you can.
candid investor
15/3/2017
16:42
candid,

The only flaws with your logic are that the doubling of the pension deficit is an accounting and actuarial calculation, not an actual doubling of the cash needed. As many of us have stated before, a small change in the rates used for this calculation will quickly decrease that deficit.

As for the debt, it was only in January that CLLN refinanced its debt and stated in the RNS at the time about 'the strong support Carillion continues to receive in the debt capital markets'.

jaf1948
15/3/2017
16:29
Valhamos...the doubling of the pension deficit is significant because the size of it at £815 million is nearly 90 per cent of the market value of the company ...which other ftse companies can say that ? Oh and in addition there is £610 million of debt.. of course there may still be a happy ending to the story but I don't believe in Goldilocks scenarios where investments are concerned. The company didn't mention the doubling of the deficit..just shows what contempt they have for the pensioners and investors alike. Continue investing in them if you like but they lost my trust and confidence.
candid investor
15/3/2017
11:20
Well i would be happy for the share price to bash up against 250 then a nice contract
win to push us through.

WJ.

w1ndjammer
15/3/2017
11:15
'This will create a ceiling for the share price.'So if CLLN announces tomorrow that they have won a £5bn order and that the pension calculation rate has changed by £200m to the good, the ceiling will still be determined by the 200ma ?Don't think so. Statistics are at best a guide not a science.
jaf1948
15/3/2017
11:13
Someone changed from holder to shorter not long ago and started to spread the negativity about the share price of Carillion since then. Now, he turns into an expert of charts. LOL!
kcsham
15/3/2017
10:59
The 200 day moving average is the best trend indicator and for Carillion it is well and truly down and has been for almost 2 years. The 200 day average is currently about 250p and still falling. This will create a ceiling for the share price.
rcturner2
15/3/2017
10:49
Candid - You said " I exited my position and suggest you do the same while you can but do your own research.."If I were you, I will not make such a suggestion when I am not qualified to do so. Yes, the charts show the momentum of the share price is changed from bull in a day and a half ago and is now against Carillion's share. How long this present trend will last, another day and a half?I believe it will need to be wait and see in the next few weeks before the XD day.
kcsham
15/3/2017
09:04
Candid

Why do you think the pension deficit doubling is hugely significant? The liability is discharged over many years, the company has good cashflow to meet deficit contributions and in any case for every 10 bps increase in bond yields the deficit is reduced by £60m, so it would not take much in terms of an increase in rates for the deficit to be eliminated.

valhamos
15/3/2017
09:04
candid investor,

In December 2016, the Daily Telegraph stated that the pension deficits of the FTSE100 companies stood at £414bn with a total market cap of £1.8tn. Carillion is worse than that at the moment (but that could change as early as this afternoon if the US up their rates) but on that basis every company in the FTSE100 should be ringing alarm bells.

As RCT says, there are many things to like in the CLLN financials - to focus on just one bad one is a valid approach but not one that I use. I am not exiting my position (or 'selling' as we say in English) just yet.

jaf1948
15/3/2017
07:19
I read the IC last night, their coverage of Carillion cuts both ways. The column on the results is positive and they reiterate their buy recommendation. However there is also quite a detailed article about Carillion's financial numbers and recent history which really puts the boot in.
rcturner2
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