Bulgarian Property Developments Share Discussion Threads

[fft] 06/1/2005 09:39

Ratters,

you can see part of the work on the runway if you look out of the window when you are landing. The new terminal is definitely on - and it is supposed to be completed this year. Pictures (as at Dec 2004) and news at


The ring road does ring Sofia (it runs past technopolis for example), but is not the best road in the world. It is mainly single carriage way and is now chockka due to all the building work going on by people who have bought land next to it. Upgrading it to two lanes should be a big priority.

[suntan] 06/1/2005 09:37

Sorry..Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree.. I was assuming that the "company" owned the land and perhaps leased it to the foriegner.
So are you saying that the info section of stara-planina is no longer correct?

[mohamed99] 06/1/2005 09:32

BIG BLUE DAY AHEAD ..........................................................

[peterstilgoe] 06/1/2005 09:24

Not sure what you mean suntan, in what scenario ?

The law has been passed to allow memebers of the EU to own land without setting up a BG Company, cant remember when it comes in to play though.

[suntan] 06/1/2005 09:19

According to the Bulgarian Constitution, foreign individual persons can buy buildings but not land. Therefore the most common method for foreigners buying property in Bulgaria is to set up a company which then owns the land and the buildings.
We expect the law to change within the short to medium term as Bulgaria opens its doors fully in line with its expected entry into the European Union (2007). This historic restriction is one of the reasons why property in Bulgaria is so competitively priced compared to Western and Central Europe.

So what happens to the lease if and when the law changes? Will the lease holders have to pay again if they wish to own the freehold?...Or is the present arrangment as good as a freehold?
Anyone know?

[mohamed99] 06/1/2005 09:05

this could be another AEN .............

[peterstilgoe] 06/1/2005 08:30

Prices reflect the risks, no such thing as a free lunch, I have a 2 bed 2 bath near elenite & have recently completed on some land within the boundaries of 'Super Borovets' development which is due to complete 2009 / 2010. Expecting some good returns from this but am fully aware of the risks also. Its not a one way ticket but it offer much more potential then many other property markets at the moment that are within a commutable area.

[fernandesb] 06/1/2005 06:21

Not everyone is as honest as the British,and you have to be extra careful when doing business in some countries(this also applies in western Europe),if you are not absolutely familiar with the local laws especially laws concerning ownership of land etc,you will get your fingers badly burnt as the saying goes.In my opinion(excuse the spelling),Britian is one of the most honest countries to do business in,no wonder everybody is trying to come over here.

[spiv 1] 06/1/2005 00:10

Dwelshmafia, if your grasp of english is of the same calibre as your stock picking then be doubly cautious!
As for Spain, my uncle bought a place on the coast years ago and it took bloody years to sell it as well. Oh and don't forget nice little laws that were brought in in Valencia allowing property developers to take up to half your land which you have to pay for!
When you've 'bought' your Bulgarian property be sure that you actually own it. Lots of the deeds don't even relate to the correct property. Not saying its a bad investment but you need to appreciate that there is considerable risk.

[ratters] 05/1/2005 23:04

dwelshmafia,

Yes, I have been there many, many times on business.

I just don't want to see you sucked into something you do not understand.

You are probably correct in assuming that property prices in general in the country (particularly in terms of holiday areas in Black Sea resorts and the so-called ski-resorts - which have a progressively shorter and shorter snow season) will undoubtedly increase in the short term.

However, there are huge risks and I would not like to see anybody sink everything into that particular gamble.

Best of luck.

[richardbees] 05/1/2005 22:54

take your profits!

they wouldn't have put this on the market at a 100% discounted price!

[dwelshmafia] 05/1/2005 22:52

ratters have you been there??? i guess no look at the changes you have got to go to see it

[ratters] 05/1/2005 22:44

dwelshmafia,

I truly admire your enthusiasm - but as someone who has been dealing with Bulgaria during and since the communist era I would strongly recommend a degree of caution.

Things are not always as clear as you might imagine.

Please do not sink your fortune into land/houses etc. If it goes pear-shaped
there will be no way back.

[dwelshmafia] 05/1/2005 22:31

bulgaria i've booked a flight today for spring to look to buy land and houses plus what i got left over bpd i see them at 5 or 6 pounds by the year 2006.

[rudder] 05/1/2005 22:18

Did any one see Top twenty property Hotspots this evening? Guess which was in the top 3!

[spiv 1] 05/1/2005 21:37

Interesting points jake. I would love to get out there and buy something but don't know when I'll get a chance.Did consider a new apartment in Bansko but they simply weren't that cheap (£35000-£40000 for a 1 bed studio flat). I know that sounds cheap but you have to pay a maintenance fee each year plus various taxes on rental income (which on a studio flat in Bulgaria was very low). When I added it all up the return per annum was pretty pathetic.
Just one more dampner, in my experience small foreign uk registered stocks like this one can become very illiquid once the initial enthusiasm has worn off. In a month from now you might be stuck with big spreads and unable to sell/buy more than 5000 shares. Don't know the nms for this stock but I'll bet its 5000 tops probably less around 2000 shares.

[jakecat1] 05/1/2005 19:13

Went out in the summer and bought a 6 bedroomed place 15 mins from Bourgas airport, 20 mins from resort. Bought with Bulgarianproperties.com - Cost £31500, inc fees! (Spiv 1, in our experience all of the properties listed on the website had been sold. The agents admitted that they could not keep the website up to date as things were moving so quickly. Granted, this is on the Black Sea Coast.) People incredibly friendly, food excellent, resort at Sunny Beach knocks spots off any Spanish resort, but banking system pre-historic. This country has been as good as granted access to the EU in 2007.

Was not aware of this stock but will certainly be having a dabble. Forgot to mention that a large bottle of Becks currently sells at 30p and I could not find a vintage bottle of wine anywhere for more than £2. (Bulgaria is the world's fifth largest wine producer.)

Best advice I can give you is to get out there ASAP. Flights currently do not operate to Bourgas in the winter months, but excellent direct service in the summer from many UK airports. Prices will rise as the number of flights increases to include a winter scedule. (I have been pestering Easyjet along with many other British buyers for some time now!)

If you can't get a place of your own, I would personally have a dabble in this stock. The price of apartments in Sofia are currently rocketing, and any developments near a European capital can only increase in value. (Particularly when an EU subsidy provides a subway system in the city.)

DYOR etc. Just my personal opinion.

Jake

[mangal] 05/1/2005 18:27

peterstilgoe,
Thanks for the link to your thread; I've now put it in the header here.

[spiv 1] 05/1/2005 17:55

Just to put a dampner on things. First of all a big part of the property boom in Bulgaria is due to people in Britain making shed loads on uk properties in a rising uk property market and looking for somewhere to stick the money. The uk property market is now stagnant and/or falling and might correct by up to 20% according to some analysts. If this happens then there'll be a lot less money coming to Bulgarian properties.
Secondly, Bulgaria may not join the Eu. This is by no means definate.
Thirdly, check out Bulgarian properties website. I was looking to buy a property in Bansko 12 months ago and most of the properties for sale then are still for sale now (granted this may not be the case on the Black Sea coast). There are a lot of legal problems with non Bulgarian citizens owning property, for a start they can't own the land the property is built on etc etc. There are ways around this by registering a company but it still is a bit of a mine field.
All in all the share price may go higher yet but at these valuations it won't last. 50-60p would be a sensible level to buy.

[peterstilgoe] 05/1/2005 17:20

Cheers Ratters, any info appreciated, I have a few contacts out there aswell, I heard their maybe a small internal airport being built near Bansko, cant see it myself but it is a trek from Sofia and theres some big german & swiss investors ploughing money in there.