Blue Planet Investment Share Discussion Threads

[kiwi2007] 10/10/2008 12:03

No news but.... you could now buy at 69p again... brave though !!

[kiwi2007] 15/9/2008 18:29

47% of their holdings are in Russia which hasn't helped performance I'd imagine?



Like you DF I've been in and out before ... watching with interest.

[donaferentes] 13/9/2008 14:36

Made money in at 140 and out at 180 a couple of years ago - been watching since - should've shorted, but not organised enough. Agree, when they hit bottom, I suspect the fundamentals are sound, unless they have been forced sellers with nothing left for the side when it comes.

[malcolmmm] 13/9/2008 13:16

By investing in Russia and hedging against the dollar these look doomed for now.
But I would not think that they will sink much futher.
I am watching for any breakout, good share to trade short term

[hectorp] 10/7/2008 12:48

Note the tiny market cap of this Fund ( £16M) which means it may be riven by relatively high management costs etc.. Not for me.
I'll stick with JII ADN etc
regds
H

[jimbob220] 22/4/2008 16:50

g0d how boring...

[simon gordon] 08/2/2008 14:39

Pretty devastating for Ken Murray:

'Unreliable witness' Murray loses fight for cash payoff

Ken Murray, the maverick Scottish financier, could be more than £1m worse off after yesterday losing his High Court battle for a three-year payoff from his former company Murray Financial Corporation.

Mr Justice Stanley Burnton also said that Mr Murray proved to be "an unreliable witness" who was not entitled to the payoff, worth £763,000, after he quit as chief executive of MFC last summer.

Mr Murray, 45, faces the prospect of paying MFC's legal bills, likely to be more than £250,000.

David Ingram, a partner at Ingram Winter Green which acted for MFC, said: "It is an outright victory. We were always confident that we would defeat his claim. We will now be seeking that he pays the company's costs."

Mr Murray said in a statement that he was considering an appeal. He said: "Having discussed the judgment with my solicitors we are extremely disappointed with this outcome."

The case centred on Mr Murray's contract at MFC, an Edinburgh-based company which raised £10m in 1998 to try to demutualise building societies. His 12-month service agreement would rise to three years if MFC bought a "financial institution". However the group, now Leisureplay, never succeeded in buying a building society.

Mr Murray argued in the five-day hearing last month that he was entitled to the cash because MFC bought Insurance Village, an online insurance broker, in March 2000.

MFC also signed "heads of agreement" to buy Blue Planet Investment Management, a fund management business owned by Mr Murray, in November 2001.

In the 39-page ruling yesterday, Mr Justice Burnton said that neither Insurance Village nor Blue Planet qualified as "financial institutions".

The judge also threw out an attempt by Mr Murray to amend his case so that he could claim common law damages for £265,000 for one year's pay.

In the judgment, Mr Justice Burnton said suggestions that Insurance Village was a "financial institution" were "risible". Of Mr Murray's evidence, he said: "Mr Murray is a highly intelligent man and clearly an able businessman. He was however an unreliable witness."

A letter from MFC's solicitor Semple Fraser to the Takeover Panel in October 2001 claimed that MFC buying Blue Planet was "not in [Mr Murray's] mind or in his contemplation" when Blue Planet bought 1m MFC shares.

However, Mr Justice Bowman said that, given that Mr Murray had discussed selling Blue Planet to MFC two weeks earlier with MFC's chairman Bryan Rankin, "it is difficult to accept that Mr Murray did not have in mind the possibility of MFC purchasing BPIM when he purchased the shares on 28 February. . . at best Semple Fraser's letter discloses an economy with the truth".

[malcolmmm] 10/1/2008 11:17

what's all that about BHP?

[malcolmmm] 04/1/2008 12:16

Thats what I was wondering.. maybe higher as the shares have moved ahead, usually the insiders buy before we get to know

[jimbob220] 02/1/2008 15:01

We could do with a NAV update

[dwsmithdhf] 13/11/2007 08:17

According to the latest breakdown of investments cash or near cash is approx. 25% of assets. Say 40p. Take cash out or net assets and share price and you pay approx. 80p for 130p of assets. Assets are at beaten down prices. Seems cheap to me but what do I know!!!

[woracle] 09/11/2007 11:19

I agree, its not very consistent but you can make money from it if you trade it well. If you buy when discounts are about 35% to 40%, its usually a good signal ! Not quite there yet ;)

[malcolmmm] 09/11/2007 10:23

I have had these almost 10years ,as a trust fund they are just making money for the directors who have taken millions in fees over this period.
I think that they will recover dramatically in time but arn't a share to tuck away.
I think shareholders should foward a motion at the next AGM that this trust be wound up due to poor performance over a long period, they have now gone defensive which isnt working and will lose out in any upturn.

[zapherz] 08/11/2007 22:51

Malcolmm - Do you know what - I did exactly the same as you and also wish I'd sold the lot now LOL. Anyway, all that's left is my profit in them from my original 96p purchase, gutting all the same.

Good luck

Regards

Z

[malcolmmm] 08/11/2007 10:29

pleased I sold half of these at 200p wish I had sold the rest

[jhan66] 21/10/2007 12:22

Think the 26% discount at BPW will take a hit after the last few days. Trustnet are estimating the current discount at 24%, still very good though I personally think it will be smaller still.

I'm trying to get a feel for the accuracy of Trustnet estimates at another company, Osprey.
Dunedin & Osprey Smaller Co. IT's have similar holdings- Fenner, Laird etc.
DNDL report daily OSP declare once a month. I was keen to buy OSP based on DNDL's recent performance. But Trustnet estimates have been making the discount somewhat smaller. Will wait for the current market drops to settle but I still think I can buy OSP at good value by tracking Dunedin.

[joeycooper] 21/10/2007 11:58

The winter edition of Investment Trusts (just out) also has a very promising article on Blue Planet Growth and Finiancials (written covering the period upto beginning of Sept).
This article was written by Fairfax I.S.
Guess who's Blue Planet's broker?

[carterit] 20/10/2007 18:50

Now that depends.If Ken is still sitting on his hands this time (hopefully) - i don't think we will see an end of year rally (not in financial stocks anyway) this year.

After yesterday,i wouldn't be surprised to see a further sizeable adjustment downwards.

That bein the case,they really will be in a promising position.

On BPW from here to NAV represents a 30% increase.

The winter edition of Investment Trusts (just out) also has a very promising article on Blue Planet Growth and Finiancials (written covering the period upto beginning of Sept).

These have much more potential than many others for rapid upward movement when the sector bottoms.

Massive discount to NAV,still to early to say he's wrong - this has a lot longer to play yet.

I'll continue to be a buyer while the discount to NAV is around or greater than the 25% mark (as it is with BPW)

[mikey34] 20/10/2007 08:14

Woracle,

I agree.This is defensive spin.

[woracle] 14/10/2007 10:48

Well, Sept was a storming month and Bernake did cut rates so Ken has yet again missed out on the recent recovery. Moreover, the 3rd Qtr US banking season did reveal losses but not as badly as most feared. Barclays Cap statement last week was more evidence that Ken is wrong at the moment. I wonder what Ken will do if the usual end of year bull run starts gaining momentum ?

[goldlocks] 14/10/2007 10:40

Sorry, the article of 17 August 2007 is actually the one in which PR gives the false impression of having outperformed and timed the market well:


Edinburgh PR news release - We are Entering the Worst Banking Crisis in Decades - Stock Market to Fall by another 20%
On the 3rd April 2007 Blue Planet Investment Management, the manager of some of the most successful financial funds in the world, issued a press release (copy attached) predicting that the bear market had started, the credit cycle had turned and that stock markets would fall sharply.

Ken Murray, who manages Blue Planet's Worldwide Financials Investment Trust, the 2nd best performing financials funds in the world over 3 years and the best performing investment trust in the UK in 2006, has the following sobering prediction "Just as that was predictable what will happen next is also predictable. We are entering one of the greatest banking crises in decades. The credit cycle has turned, bad debts are soaring, banks will go bust and stock markets will fall much further. People need to be told the truth as opposed to being spoon fed palliative words."

The Problem:
Stock markets have fallen as investors have begun to appreciate that banks are facing "liquidity problems". These liquidity problems relate to the short end of the money market. However, this is only a symptom of much deeper problems - mounting bad debts and the inability of banks to sell on loans that they have originated in the expectation that they would be able to re-sell them. The instruments most affected are securitised mortgages and loans to fund private equity transactions. The market in mortgage backed securities has now all but ceased to exist as investors, hurt by huge potential losses, spurn them. Indeed, early indications are that losses on mortgage-backed bonds will be huge. Merrill Lynch recently tried to sell mortgage-backed bonds it seized from the failed Bear Stearns hedge funds and failed to find any buyers after allegedly offering them out for as little as 11 cents in the dollar. The true extent of these losses will become apparent when banks and funds next have their accounts audited.

Investors are now very fearful of those markets and it is unlikely that any meaningful liquidity will return to them for a long time. It is the lack of liquidity in asset backed securities markets and the unwillingness of sound banks to lend to troubled banks that is generating the liquidity problems in the money markets. Ken Murray adds "Banks understand the situation that is developing and they are increasingly unwilling to lend to other banks that they perceive to be risky. Investors should take heed of this warning."

The inability of banks to sell on loans that they have written for re-sale causes them serious liquidity and capital adequacy problems. Often when banks commit to provide loan facilities they do so without knowing whether they will be able to sell on the resultant assets. Some banks have become complacent about this risk following a period of good demand for such securities and saw these facilities as no more than bridging finance. A collapse in demand for these securities means banks can no longer sell them on and what they grew to see as bridging finance is now fast becoming long term finance.

Furthermore, the banks that are experiencing liquidity problems will see those problems worsen. This is because they have already undertaken to lend an estimated $330 to $420 billion of loans much of which they will be unable to sell on with the consequence that those loans will have to be retained on their own balance sheets: balance sheets which are simply unable to sustain them. Every time a loan is drawn down cash goes out to be replaced by highly illiquid, poor quality assets that no one wants to buy. Ken Murray says "this conveyor belt of death will suck the liquidity out of investment banks and fill their balance sheets with bad debts. I would not be surprised to see one or more of them become insolvent in the near future."

We have no doubt that central banks will act to try and avert the rapidly developing crisis but there are limits to what they can do. Supplying liquidity through the money markets will mask the problem and hide it from investors for a while but it will not resolve it.

The Worst Has Yet to Come:
Not only do the affected banks face a growing liquidity crisis (one of the major causes of bankruptcy in the banking sector) but they also face a more serious problem, albeit one that will take longer to develop. That is the problem of a rising tsunami of bad debts which will go on to overwhelm many of them. Years of excesses in the investment banking markets and the $8 trillion US mortgage market are coming home to roost. Bad debts in the US mortgage market are already at record levels, with worse to come. $275bn dollars worth of mortgages are due to reset to higher interest rates between now and the end of December. In 2008, a further $684bn will reset. Many borrowers will not be able to meet these higher borrowing costs and will go into default. By then unemployment is likely to be rising as the credit cycle bites and economies slow. This combination of rising unemployment and interest rates is the "worst case scenario" so far as lenders are concerned. Bad debts are set to soar.

How to Make Money from the Crisis:
These problems do not affect all banks. Retail banks in strong, soundly run, emerging economies such as Russia continue to grow rapidly and should be largely immune from these problems although they may suffer short term price weakness. The problems are, for the time being at least, restricted to investment banks, other banks that have been active in the capital markets and US mortgage lenders. In addition to the originators of these loans, the other main losers will be investors in securities derived from them.

Ken Murray says "It will take about 12 to 18 months for the banking market to absorb these losses and to stabilise at which point there will be good investment opportunities to be had. Blue Planet has liquidated investments, stripped our portfolio down to a small group of retail banks with good growth prospects and that are not exposed to these problems, eliminated gearing, hedged our remaining investments and raised cash in anticipation of much steeper falls to come in shares. We have locked in some of the very large profits we have made in recent years and armed ourselves with cash so that we can re-enter the market when it has stabilised."

[goldlocks] 14/10/2007 10:30

There is a link on VP's website to an article in which PR gives the impression outperformed that he anticipated the sharp fall and his funds outperformed the market! What do you think of this?





Blue Planet anticipate sharp fall in September

Ben Bernanke's says "It is not the responsibility of the Federal Reserve – nor would it be appropriate – to protect lenders and investors from the consequences of their financial decisions."

The message from Ben Bernanke's address to the Jackson Hole meeting is clear. There will be no cut in the Fed Funds rate in September, there may be a cut in the rate at which the Fed lends to banks if liquidity problems persist in the short end of the money markets and investors will have to bear any losses they have sustained as a result of risky and poorly controlled lending.

Mr Bernanke's views were predictable and reflect the long held view of virtually every central banker in the world. For them the avoidance of "moral hazard" is central to ensuring the stability of banking systems and it is imperative that those who engage in imprudent lending bear the losses that arise from it. Such a view is unlikely to ever change. It was therefore not surprising to have him state "It is not the responsibility of the Federal Reserve – nor would it be appropriate – to protect lenders and investors from the consequences of their financial decisions." although it may come as a disappointment to many in the market who thought otherwise.

The Fed is also, again understandably, pleased to see that underwriting standards for new loans are being tightened and that banks have become more risk averse in their lending. Inflation is under control, the economy is growing and as he notes, in any event cuts in short term interest rates would do little to ameliorate the problems arising from irresponsible lending practices in the past. In short, the Fed is content with things the way they are.

In essence, the Fed will not be bailing out any lenders or investors who suffer losses arising from imprudent lending in the US mortgage market and as Mr Bernanke notes "delinquencies among this class of mortgages (sub prime) are likely to rise further". Investors should heed his warning. The stockmarket's apparent lack of understanding of the looming problem is alarming.

Ken Murray, CEO of Blue Planet Investment Management, comments:
"Markets have been rising recently in the belief that the Fed is going to cut interest rates. Consequently, there is likely to be a sharp fall in September when they are not cut and the losses that are building in the sub-prime market re-assert themselves. Blue Planet has hedged all of their Funds covering between 40 and 55% of all assets. This is in anticipation of the re-emergence of the serious and large losses that are building in the banking and fund industries which are not going to go away quickly, contrary to what some in the market believe."