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ANR Altona

16.50
0.00 (0.00%)
28 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Altona LSE:ANR London Ordinary Share GB00BFZNKV91 ORD 10P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 16.50 - 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
0 0 N/A 0

Altona Energy Share Discussion Threads

Showing 18926 to 18949 of 20625 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
16/11/2014
19:11
This is looking very promising now and looks like more gains this week.
topgun1000
16/11/2014
19:04
Having Google the term BFS, it is clearly a very complicated process with a lot of conditions influencing the direction of travel. The cost of the process itself is not that great, whereas if proved bankable the costs of bringing it to fruition is very significant. That said, its not as if any company taking it on is going to be required to develop all the processes in one go, the coal-methnol plant, would likely be the first step. Who knows what conditions have been set by state and national governments that have proved insurmountable obstacles to parties previously involved? (to be continued).
The issue resulting from a bankable BFS will boil down to how big a pound of flesh the lender/s will want in return for the monies they are prepared to put up, which has to find an equitable balance in terms of what the owners of the resource is prepared to accept. After all, I do not see any of the stakeholders allowing themselves to be robbed blind. Anymore than the governments would be willing to see a national strategic reserve fall under the control by proxy of a foreign power.

azalea
16/11/2014
16:39
I am not sure of the original wording but many many years ago it was well documented by ANR that their goal was to get this project to BFS, and then sell??
p0pper
16/11/2014
12:13
We just don't know - do we ?



The negative scenario is that the chinese with their big bucks will effectively over time leach the Resource and the returns from the ordinary shareholders.


The positive scenario is that they need to keep the Oz authorities on-side and a realistic AIM listing is an integral element of this. The number of rules about how the Sino-Aus / Wintask combo can exercise their votes and shareholdings seem to lean in this direction.


What is absolutely indisputable is that we are at the whim of the major financiers who are putting up the money. Before it was CNOOC - now Sino-Aus / Wintask. We can only hope for fair-play. It is and always has been a pure gamble. Possible great returns / possible bust.


Just enjoy the roller coaster.......

unionhall
16/11/2014
11:10
azalea, post 17483 is written as a general piece, so i dont know if it was written in response to my earlier post that says "the cost of the project to completion runs to billions, so where is that funding coming from?".

for sake of discussion, i'll assume it is.

i have no doubt you are correct about the global availability of cash ready for investment into projects of all sorts, i'd even go further and say that with the distortions we've seen in the last few years due to the cc and risk aversion there are probably trillions in cash waiting on the sidelines. so no argument there.

i also fully agree about the attractions of the arckaringa project - the demand for the product, the resource size, the geopolitical benefits (stable govt, doorstep to china, etc).

anr is a tiddler and has no scope for organic growth or cash generation, unlike larger players who are not single project concerns and have other businesses generating cash or have substantial cash reserves, or both.

so the issue is not the global availability of funds, the issue is how much of the remaining 45% of arckaringa that anr currently own will they have to cede to gain the required funds to meet their share of the costs post-bfs and upto project completion?

will anr end up with say 5% (from 45% now) of the completed project with say dilution upto 2bn shares (from 992m now), or will it be 1% with 10bn shares.

obviously the former better than the latter, and both results may be good or bad depending on the eventual project economics, but no one can say at this stage. the reality will almost certainly be different to either of these examples.

it all depends on how management navigate the negotiations through to project completion - and that is unanswerable at this stage.

in the meantime the bfs is at least 2 years away and any cost overrun on the bfs will need to be met in 45% share by anr. the cash they have today will be unlikely to meet that obligation if it arises, given that they have to meet 2 years of running costs at least until bfs completion - and that's before project gets to build stage.

i am not currently a holder but have followed anr's story since at least 2006, simply because the arckaringa project is so stupendous.

on 12 oct 2006 anr issued an rns:
"Altona Resources plc (AIM: ANR) announces that the Company is to progress to the commencement of a Bankable Feasibility Study ("BFS")...
...The Company aims to have the BFS completed by mid 2007."

lets hope this time, with anr's share of the project down to 45% and with shares in issue now almost 1bn, the bfs does in fact complete by 2016.

konil
15/11/2014
17:52
There are several billions of dollars in the world looking through financial analysts eyes for a good home. Apart from the extremes of its weather, Oz, is in all other respects one of the most stable countries in the world to invest in. The coal resource, conversion technology and demand for the products is proven. The last hurdle is the BFS, if that is proven bankable, then ANR should have little difficulty in attracting large sums of money being staked by the big boys. With a frightening global population of 7Bn people on the planet already,with no end to a further rises in sight, the demand for clean energy is insatiable. Already India's government is calculating that its policy driven demands for electricity will double from one to two trillion units by 2019. China has recently signed up with the USA to reduce its CO2 emissions dramatically over the next decade, which will require a massive reduction in direct coal generated electricity, despite the latter's continually growing demand.
azalea
15/11/2014
08:23
Provisions of £300k have been recovered, so the increased in losses is much more than the tax provision accounts for. How has the company got itself into this position with a former director/service company who must have been paid £millions?
If the company has to pay HMRC & doesn't recover anything from the director/service company, there could be even further dilution (another 80 million shares at the current price) since the cash held will be insufficient to cover the payment plus on-going overheads.
Lth, but increasingly frustrated with director's performance versus their remuneration.

ianguerin
15/11/2014
07:53
Well with £3.9m in cash and JV farmout now finalised Altona will at the very least be fully funded to BFS completion stage. If they are controlling the purse strings then there should be no need for further dilution. (am I still deramping lol).
pembury
14/11/2014
22:43
p0pper,

If I recall correctly, the share price didn't go up immediately when CNOOC agreed the JV, but not long later.

I would think that a run of RNS's over the coming months must eventually be reflected in the sp

fozdad
14/11/2014
22:00
I've now read the 3 news releases (twice now) today and I can't really see any negatives apart from the tax issue which as they say they probably have a legal argument against anyway. I am totally surprised of lack of share price movement today as when this same deal was announced with CNOOC it shot up to 20p very briefly.
p0pper
14/11/2014
17:53
hi union, long time no pow wow!

iirc the cnooc terms were only up to completion of bfs, anr intended to cede a further 19% i think in lieu of cash payments for next step, leaving anr with 30%, and i assume this sort of arrangement would continue up to a point, as the project progressed, so as to minimise dilution from equity funding. imo equity funding could not be entirely avoided but with the project further progressed the share price might have been significantly higher and equity funding less dilutive at that point. nothing on which to base this but i thought anr might end up with say a 5% share of the whole project at completion and some share dilution along the way. given the size/cost/projected profits of the project and given anr's miniscule size and extremely modest cash resources that would have been a splendid result imo.

cnooc deal is history of course.

the new deal has already diluted (once resolutions are passed) by another 200m shares in return for £2m but that wont go very far, even assuming the bfs comes in on estimate and anr dont have to stump up 45% of any overrun on bfs...its going to be a long 2 years before we know!

the cost of the project to completion runs to billions, so where is that funding coming from? i guess same as before, more of the remaining 45% to be ceded in lieu of anr's share of cash payments and perhaps some equity funding too along the way. lets hope the new partners have deep pockets and are poor negotiators - somehow i doubt the latter!

been following this story for many years but the funding has always been the niggle in what is otherwise an enormous opportunity. not sure how keen i am on wintask management being on the anr board, i cant see conflict of interest being avoided even with all good intentions and various resolutions in place.

anyway, hopefully things will start moving now after years in the cnooc wilderness!

konil
14/11/2014
17:46
my memory is getting a bit hazy having been here for so long
In the old deal with CNOOC, did CNOOC have 51% with the option to increase to 70% ?
Mac

mc7y
14/11/2014
14:41
No doubt this mornings GAP up will be closed [almost has been] and then ANR will rise again on the back of 1. the results are pretty much unchanged from last year 2. cracking JV in place worth $$$$ BILLIONS $$$$ 3. company properly funded now moving forwards 4. new management 5. lots of news flow to come and 6. the shares are just way way undervalued given the prospects!
liquid millionaire
14/11/2014
14:37
There should be steady newsflow over the coming months, I believe there is a strict timetable in place and the commitment by the JV partners to funding shows that they mean business.

- Government approval for the JV to own the licences etc
- PF replacement
- Appointment of drilling contractor (see details of our JV partners...do you think?)
- Start of drilling campaign

To name but a few

fozdad
14/11/2014
14:01
Transformational perhaps but 'there's many a slip twixt cup and lip' and I guess that's what the market is saying.
par555
14/11/2014
13:54
What do Zak and Moose have to say about it?
tiptv1
14/11/2014
12:02
What a damp squib reaction considering the transformational news :((
joeblogg2
14/11/2014
12:00
At least we know more about who is behind Sino-Aus now. May take a few week of research to get the full picture though.
tarni
14/11/2014
11:18
dempsey, cheers for that!
pembury
14/11/2014
10:59
fozdad

LOL - great post.

loverat
14/11/2014
10:56
Without this £790000 one off liability the loss would have been about the same as last year

The balance sheet as at 30 June 2014 includes a provision amounting to GBP790,000 (2013: GBPNil) in respect of a potential anticipated liability to HMRC for income tax not deducted and accounted for under the PAYE system, and National Insurance Contributions not accounted for, in each case in respect of payments made on a gross basis to private companies for the provision of the services of a former director.

The precise amount of the Company's liability to HMRC is currently under negotiation. The sum provided represents, in the view of the directors, having taken professional advice, a reasonable estimate of the Company's probable current liability in this context. While the quantum of the provision represents their best estimate, of the ultimate liability, no assurance can be given that the estimate will prove to be accurate.

The Company has submitted arguments which, if accepted, would result in a significantly lower liability. It is not however, anticipated that the liability could be entirely eliminated even if the Company's assertions are accepted in full.

The Company having taken professional advice, considers that it has potential claims against third parties, whereby they may be found liable to compensate the Company for a material part of any liability to HMRC which the Company is found to have. If it is necessary to pursue such claims by legal proceedings, some element of irrecoverable costs would inevitably be incurred. It is anticipated that the quantum of any such irrecoverable costs would not be substantial relative to the potential recovery

dempsey2
14/11/2014
10:21
Last years results were bad but these are beyond belief!, how is it possible they can lose so much money when all they been doing is talking with nothing going on the ground for the past year?.
2admiral
14/11/2014
10:07
Agree, the financials were put out same day to try and hide the woeful financial figures. ALNC addresses the widening operating losses reported today. Although at nearly double the loss of last year I would say more than just 'widening'!.
pembury
14/11/2014
10:06
You're absolutely right Seismick, it's such a drag, having to raise funds (yawn), create BFS (yawn), raise more funds (yawn), actually build the plant (major yawn) and then start making billions of pounds (long drawn out yawn)

I have a much better idea, I think the JV should be concentrating on developing a magic wand that they can wave and hey presto! a multi billion £ project will be completed overnight at zero cost.

Why haven't they thought of that? They must be a right bunch of numpties

fozdad
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