Alent Share Discussion Threads

[nobbyx] 02/10/2014 17:33

Rabbar,

Thank you for your concern.

I will be paid the dividend. I bought my holding in Alent months ago and still hold hold the shares.

Let's hope you get yours.

[rabbar] 02/10/2014 10:46

Nobbyx

Yes & I hope you can convince your broker that you are right and the London Stock Exchange wrong, so you can get paid the dividend.


It wouldn't have help in this case but there use to be a feature on ADVFN where the flags column under the monitor feature use to show shares that went ex-dividend, but they took this feature away. It was usefully when I did a lot of day trading, as it saved me jumping in to buy shares when the share fell on ex-dividend day and getting caught out then having to hold for a long while.
Not sure in Nobbyx world how they calculated the drop for alent Ex-dividend not knowing whether the resolution would pass 2 days later.

One important thing to note from the LSE document is that from next week ex-dividend days will move to Thursdays instead of Wednesdays.

[nobbyx] 02/10/2014 10:25

As RF says above, all will be revealed on the 17th.

[rabbar] 02/10/2014 10:09

Nobbyx I suggest you read this document which states:


A special dividend alongside a consolidation will be deemed ex-entitlement to the dividend on the effective
date when dealings in the consolidated shares begin. The record date for the dividend and consolidation
should normally be the business day prior to the effective date.


These are the rules and it is also stated in the as I showed before (as below) which is an official document checked by lawyers brokers and registrars (sorry if they didn't consult you).


EXPECTED TIMETABLE
2014
Date of publication of this Circular Wednesday 27 August
Ordinary Shares marked ex-Existing Interim Dividend Wednesday 24 September
Latest time and date for receipt of Forms of Proxy 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday 24 September
Deadline for receipt of Alent Dividend Reinvestment Plan instructions 5.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Record date for the Existing Interim Dividend Friday 26 September
General Meeting 2.30 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Cancellation of trading of Existing Ordinary Shares 4.30 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Shareholder Record Date for the Special Dividend and for the
Share Consolidation 6.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Commencement of dealings in New Ordinary Shares 8.00 a.m. on Monday 29 September
Ordinary Shares marked ex-Special Dividend Monday 29 September
CREST accounts credited with New Ordinary Shares Monday 29 September
Despatch of cheques for fractional entitlements and certificates for
New Ordinary Shares; CREST accounts credited with the value of
fractional entitlements
Wednesday 8 October
Payment of the Existing Interim Dividend to Shareholders Friday 17 October
Payment of the Special Dividend to Shareholders Friday 17 October
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q&A From




Ex-dividend Frequently Asked Questions

What does ex-dividend mean?
When a stock is classed as ex-dividend it means that if you were to buy shares you would not be entitled to the forthcoming dividend payment.

When is the latest time I can buy shares and still qualify for the dividend?
In order to qualify for the dividend you must have bought shares before the close of business on the day preceding the ex date.

How soon can I sell shares and still qualify for the dividend?
You can sell the shares as soon as the market opens on day they go ex. Usually they will already be marked down to reflect the ex-dividend status.

What if I have bought on an extended settlement, such as a T+20?
The settlement date is irrelevant; your ownership is based on the contract date.

What's the record date and why isn't it the same as the ex-dividend date?
Don't worry about the record date. It's an administrative date, usually two days after the ex-dividend date (after 6 Oct 2014, one day).

Are ex-dividend dates always Wednesdays?
Mostly, but not always. After 6 Oct 2014 they'll usually be Thursdays. There are occasionally circumstances where the ex-dividend day is different. These can occur when there is some other corporate action, such as a consolidation. They are basically there to catch you out and can be excellent trading opportunities, provided you're convinced you've got it right and the market has got it wrong!

What about tax?
Normally the dividends on UK shares are quoted and paid net of basic rate tax. If you pay tax at a higher rate you will have to pay the difference through your tax return.

What about CFD positions?
If you hold a CFD position you will not receive dividends as such. However, an adjustment will be made to your account on the ex-dividend date to reflect the share price movement due to the dividend payment. Typically you will receive a 100% credit on long positions and a 100% debit on short positions of the net dividend value. Terms may vary between CFD providers. Note that this is not classed as dividend income by the Inland Revenue but as a capital adjustment to your CFD position. This means you are potentially liable to capital gains tax on the dividend adjustment - something worth bearing in mind if you plan to scalp dividends through CFDs.

What about spread bet positions?
Adjustments are made in lieu of dividends in the same way as CFD positions. However, there are no tax issues to consider as spread bets are free of tax.

Are there any dividend adjustments if I trade the FTSE indices?
Yes, if you trade the FTSE indices there will normally be an adjustment made to your account to reflect the effect of companies which have gone ex-dividend. Terms may vary between providers.

You crack on If you want to believe otherwise.

[robertfaulkner] 02/10/2014 08:58

I suppose I will know when the div and special div gets paid

I bought 236 extra shares(to use up most of my divs)and to get to divide my holding by 23.

On Weds 24/9/14 at 8:48 and paid 347p

[nobbyx] 01/10/2014 15:46

Rabbar,

Scroll up to the top of this page and click on 'Financials' This will bring up the 'Alent Financial Information' page. Scroll down to 'Alent Dividends'

Look at the Special Dividend. Tell us what you see there regarding Ex Dividend Date, Record Date and Payment Date.

Alternatively just google 'Alent Special Dividend' and tell us the date you see quoted as Ex Dividend on various sites.

[rabbar] 01/10/2014 13:09

Nobbyx I give up, just hoping you are not one who sold up and are expecting a special dividend.

I could think of a million reasons why your latest notion is wrong but I wont bother to go into them.

I think I'll join the flat earth society instead.

[nobbyx] 01/10/2014 10:50

rabbar,

Noted your above post again confirms that the Special Dividend will go to shareholders 'on the Register' at 6 pm on Friday 26th.

There has been no disagreement between us on this matter of fact. How could there be? It's in black and white.

To go back to the start of this debate, shareholders could only 'be on the Register' at 6 pm on the 26th if they had bought the shares before they went XD at 8 am on Wednesday 24th. You appear to be confusing 'XD day' and 'Record day'.

Have you considered the possibility that the directors having sounded out the main shareholders knew that there was no possibility that the motion to consolidate the shares would be voted down? (It passed with 99.99% for, 0.01% against). An EGM had to be held only to satisfy a legal technicality. The payment of the Special Dividend may have been in theory dependent on the motion being passed, but since the directors knew that it would be passed the payment of the dividend and the timetable for doing so were never in doubt.

If you bought Alent shares after 08:00 on the 24th will find out soon enough on the 17th whether or not you are entitled to the Special Dividend, or the Ordinary interim one for that matter.

Things being quiet at present I've enjoyed this bit of to-and-fro. However more important matters loom. Best of luck with your investing.

[rabbar] 01/10/2014 06:20

Nobbyx why can't you just admit you're wrong. If the EGM on 26th had nothing to do with the special dividend why does the RNS for the meeting say the following indicating this was tied to the share consolidation:-



Special Dividend and Share Consolidation: General Meeting Circular

On 4 August 2014, Alent plc ("Alent") confirmed its intention to declare a special dividend of approximately GBP42 million, accompanied by a share consolidation. Alent has today submitted copies of the following documents to the National Storage Mechanism:


Special Dividend

Subject to Shareholder approval of the Share Consolidation at the GM, the Board proposes the payment of a Special Dividend of 15.0 pence per Existing Ordinary Share. Payment would be made to Shareholders who are on the Register at 6.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September. The Special Dividend is expected to be paid to Shareholders on Friday 17 October 2014 and is in addition to the Existing Interim Dividend Alent plans to pay to shareholders on the same date.

[sledin] 30/9/2014 22:39

rabber - you are correct. There were 2 different xd dates, 24th Sept for interim and 29th for special.

nobbyx - whenever there is a dividend accompanied by a corporate action (such as a share consolidation) the xd date is *after* the record date. Hence xd for special div of 15p was 29th Sep.

[nobbyx] 30/9/2014 22:21

Rabbar, the Directors intention to pay both the Interim Ordinary dividend of 3P and a Special Dividend of 15P were announced to the market in the Interim Results Statement of 4th August. The Statement said,

"The interim dividend is to be paid on 17 October 2014 to shareholders on the register of members at close of business on 26 September 2014." Surely anyone investing in Ordinary shares must realise shares go XD 2 days before 'Record Day'.

Please note: the decision to pay these dividends was within the normal remit of the Directors and did not require approval at a General Meeting. There was nothing about the payment of these dividends in the last AGM. (As normal there was a resolution in the AGM to approve a Final Dividend for the last Financial Year but that's got nothing to do with these Interim and Special Dividends).

The holding of General Meeting held on September 26th was announced in a 'Notice of EGM' on August 27th. A vote was required to approve the consolidation because this will alter the number of shares in issue. There was also a motion to give the Directors authorisation to repurchase shares. There was no motion to approve the Special Dividend.

If you could explain in specific terms what opportunities for unfairness or manipulation you are concerned about I for one would be obliged to you.

If it's a case that you didn't understand the process and got your dates mixed up that's unfortunate. Hard luck.

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 18:59

I think you are missing the point. There were 2 distinct events, the dividend which was was agreed at the last AGM and was to be paid to shareholders who held at close of business on 23rd before it went ex-dividend.
The EGM was to decide the special dividend and the consolidation.
If Alent intended this to be the same ex-dividend date the EGM would have had to be held before this date.
This is an ftse 350 company we are talking about. Votes of this nature cannot take place with obvious hindsight where 2 days trading has taken place before shareholders decide things of this nature, otherwise they could move the markets intentionally and vote for whatever is favourable for their cause.
All the information I have supplied is from Alent and Hargreaves Lansdown who I have an account with, who sent it to holders with a breakdown of what they will receive and when togethervwith the qualifying dates.

[nobbyx] 30/9/2014 18:34

Rabar, if you held the shares at close of business on Tuesday 23rd you will receive the dividend. If you sold them on the 24th you would still have been 'on the register' on the 26th and thus would have been eligible to vote. The person who bought the shares on the 24th would not have been on the register on the 26th so would not have been eligible to vote. They will not receive the dividends, both ordinary or special, because they bought the shares after these went XD. The consolidation is in theory meaningless in terms of the value of a shareholding. (Fewer shares but these being individually worth slightly more than pre-consolidation).

[wipo1] 30/9/2014 18:07

Many thanks for the reply Rabbar

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 17:37

So I could have sold my shares on the 24th and voted to receive a dividend for myself after I sold them? Not possible - some shareholders (institutions) have millions of these which could be worth millions of pounds in dividends (and they are the only ones who really get to vote). The vote was on the 26th and the record date and ex special dividend was effectively the same - at close of business on the 26th. So they opened up ex special dividend on Monday 29th. If they had voted no then no special dividend would have obviously be paid and therefore no ex-special dividend date.

[nobbyx] 30/9/2014 16:34

Rabbar, your post 311 above re the Special Dividend states:

'Shareholder Record Date for the 6.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September Special Dividend and for the Share Consolidation'.

The Record Date for the special dividend was Sept 26th.

XD for the Special Dividend was Sept 24th.

I've no idea what 'Ordinary Shares marked ex-Special Monday 29 September Dividend' means. It may just be a roundabout way of reminding shareholders that the Special Dividend was 15p a share per 'Old' share held, not 15p per 'New' share held after yesterday's consolidation.

The important thing is that the shares went XD on the 24th. You can check this for yourself by clicking on the 'Financials' tab at the top of this page and scrolling down to 'Alent Dividends'.

Anyone who held the shares prior to the XD date will receive the special dividend. Anyone who bought after that date will not. The vote at the General Meeting on the 26th was approve the paying of the Special Dividend payment and consolidation. It did not affect which shareholders were to receive this dividend. Those were the holders of the shares prior to them going XD on the 24th.

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 15:57

A further point to show this is correct is that the EGM vote to approve the consolidation and special dividend did not take place until the 26th. If the ex-special dividend was the 24th those voting could have already sold their holdings yet approved a special dividend for themselves.

I have a feeling a lot of people will have been caught out by this.

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 15:46

nobbyx from what you say and from what Hargreaves Lansdown has stated together with the published timetable it looks like this is true for the dividend but not the special dividend as it has en ex-dividend date of monday 29th. See below or RNS.



Expected Timetable


2014
Date of publication of the Circular Wednesday 27 August

Ordinary Shares marked ex-Existing Wednesday 24 September
Interim Dividend

Latest time and date for receipt 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday 24 September
of Forms of Proxy

Deadline for receipt of Alent 5.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Dividend Reinvestment Plan instructions

Record date for the Existing Friday 26 September
Interim Dividend

General Meeting 2.30 p.m. on Friday 26 September

Cancellation of trading of Existing 4.30 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Ordinary Shares

Shareholder Record Date for the 6.00 p.m. on Friday 26 September
Special Dividend and for the
Share Consolidation

Commencement of dealings in New 8.00 a.m. on Monday 29 September
Ordinary Shares

Ordinary Shares marked ex-Special Monday 29 September
Dividend

CREST accounts credited with Monday 29 September
New Ordinary Shares

Despatch of cheques for fractional Wednesday 8 October
entitlements and certificates
for New Ordinary Shares; CREST
accounts credited with the value
of fractional entitlements

Payment of the Existing Interim Friday 17 October
Dividend to Shareholders

Payment of the Special Dividend Friday 17 October
to Shareholders

[nobbyx] 30/9/2014 14:43

There's confusion here between the shares going XD - the 24th Sept, and being 'On the Register' - 'Record Day' which was Sept 26th. This two-day difference is a hang over from the days of manual processing to allow time for the transfer of ownership of the shares to reach the share register. Anyone who bought the shares after close of business on Tuesday 23rd will not receive the dividends. Forget about Record Days. The important ones from the shareholder's point of view are XD Days.

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 13:15

If you bought the shares on Friday you will get the dividend as long as you held past close of business as the message sent to me by HL indicates.


What has happened?

The Company recently announced its intention to return £42 million to Shareholders as a Special Dividend, equivalent to 15p per Share for each Share held at close of business on 26 September 2014. The Special Dividend is due to pay on 17 October 2014. At the same time the Company has implemented a Consolidation of its Share Capital, whereby Shareholders have received 22 new Shares in place of every 23 Shares held at close of business on 26 September 2014. The purpose of the Consolidation is to ensure that the market price of each Share should remain at a broadly similar level following the Special Dividend

[robertfaulkner] 30/9/2014 12:48

I had 5238(with the extra I bought from div to come to get divide by 23)

Now have 5010 new shares, now @ only 320.2 down 7.4p - 2,25%

Why did I bother, I could have bought more today and I missed the div with extra shares I bought (I think){if Rabbar is correct I will get 235 extra divs at 18p a pop}

[rabbar] 30/9/2014 12:34

The consolidation gives you 22 shares for every 23 you held before. You will also receive a payment for any shares remaining (if your holding was not divisible by 23). for instance if you had 45 shares you would get 22 new shares and money for the remaining 22 shares whereas if you had 46 share you will get 44 new shares instead. On top of this you will get a dividend and special dividend for the shares you held on close of business on the 26th.


I have found out today that to qualify for the dividend payments the shares are for holdings at the close of business on Friday 26th whereas it was widely reported as the 24th by a lot of brokers and sites. The information Alent published was also not clear so hoping no one sold Thursday or Friday thinking they had the divi's.

[wipo1] 30/9/2014 11:35

I am bit confused with this share consolidation, does it mean we have a lost these shares due to the special dividend? I thought these lost shares would be replaced with Alent B shares?

[robertfaulkner] 28/9/2014 10:17

I bought enough extra shares on Fri to have an exact division by 23, and when I looked at my portfolio it is valued at over 2 million pounds

Selftrade has put my market value of ALNT as 33,000.00 pounds per share (instead of 330p/share)

I wonder if I can sell them at 8am at that price, I don't think so.

Still nice to see me as a multi millionaire in writing even if is only until Monday