1ST Dental Laboratories Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 28/12/2007 19:40

Well better than might have been expected. They are still struggling on the turnover front. Revenue is up 4% on H1 despite them saying that H2 has 8% more working days than H2. Revenue is down c8% on the same period last year. So, they have done very well on the cost cutting front, but now need to move forward on revenues. Losing the FD doesn't exactly inspire. Reduction in debt is encouraging. Put back on my monitor as a watch, but not enough in this for me to buy yet.

[spaceparallax] 27/12/2007 14:00

An encouraging TS

[pugugly] 21/12/2007 09:30

Many thanks to posters 501-508 for your excellent insight to the current state of the business -

I had been considering a purchase after the recent rns but was concerned by th eresignation of Emma Towers whom I had a lot of respect for and appeared to have worked wonders for the group.

Your posts giving detailed inormations have saved my bacon and more than paid for my advfn sub - I wish all threads were as informative and polite

Thank you all again and

Best wishes to all for Christmas and a prosperous new year.

[topvest] 13/12/2007 22:17

I've taken this off my buy list. Looks doomed to me!

[muffinhead] 13/12/2007 17:59

just heard the bad news on the grapevine

Loss of Royston turnover ~ £1mill+ ...... ouch

and further exceptional costs .... ouch

There must be some pain in the other branches as the well known problems are national issues

Hope the cash position holds up to turn things around but this could turn ugly



I would have thought the closure of the laboratory (10% of turnover) warrants a trading statement

[bbbb] 13/12/2007 11:33

Perhaps this business model in this industry (including professional customers)
has remained the exception for so long because of the independently minded
nature of the performers who generally prefer to work for their own account.

From that perspective, such attempts to consolidate the industries merely sow
the seeds of their own entropy and create new opportunities for the next wave
of self-starters.

The idea could also be a source of capital with less rigid requirements as to
return and payback than an individual might expect.

[troyzgod] 12/12/2007 19:28

The clients were offered a service, through Mac Gandertons Lab.
Said Lab is down on sales as Mac Ganderton's brother has left the organisation to start his own lab... taking many clients with him.
And as of today another manager has left...from one of the biggest labs!
But the year end report will paint a rosy picture, and say the company is in
a great position.
The truth is it's falling apart, fast.

[bbbb] 11/12/2007 10:45

seems incredibly shortsighted to leave royston clients
in the lurch. one idea of having a big groups was to shuffle
work off to other group labs with spare capacity unless
there were informal local arrangements operating.

[topvest] 11/12/2007 07:53

Interesting. Doesn't sound like things have turned around here then.

[toothmanx] 11/12/2007 07:39

Just thought all you guys who follow 1st dental progress would like to know that Mac Ganderton(director)was sent to Royston branch in the wirral on Mon 10th Dec and closed it.All the staff including the manager were ask to leave,given two months pay and wished a happy christmas!This branch has been in continues business since 1928 and when 1st dental aquired it nearly five ago it was in excellent health.Unfinished work is now laying around the lab - its clients will have NO collection this morning.Not the sort of behavier from a so called market leader in dentistry

[troyzgod] 24/11/2007 15:16

What you say is totaly correct. HOWEVER. Knight dental is a relatively small outlet specialising in the private market. This Lab has won awards for its service tyo Dentists. They will also charge for this, and more importantly have technical people of the highest order.
1st dental are not in the same ball park, Most of their technicians will not be of the same quality, and will be producing to much work to attain the same quality levels.

[warice] 23/11/2007 07:50

I made a comment about nhs dentistry going back to mid 2006-I cant remember exact date explaining that a lot of lab wrk is nhs dentistry and that there will be a major reduction--as on the new nhs contract dentists are not paid any more if they do 1 crown or more than 20 crowns.I predicted then that there would be a significant reduction in lab output.and was shot down with peoples comments---look at the fall in this share price.since april 06 since the new contract was introduced.whats needed in my humble opinion is a huge cut in labs...only labs that specialise in implant and veneer work.and these labs should have websites for their cosmetic work--an excellent lab is knightdental laboratory which advertises itself well with a website.I would follow their example.Otherwise profits wont be significant.I doubt the nhs system will change soon.

[bbbb] 16/9/2007 06:02

exactly. discretionary spending moves to essentials when money tightens.
surviving labs may again need to resort to price competition rather than
buying market share to manage prices higher .

[muffinhead] 15/9/2007 23:01

nhs dental report on bbc which highlights poor outlook for dental labs

Good video also




The future recovery can only be in the private sector which will be slow going into 2008 with the consumer under pressure

[bbbb] 16/8/2007 14:55

so, for those with faith, time to bid the market down.

[pugugly] 16/8/2007 14:10

Loss cutters trying to get out but a buyers strike. Any forced sellers will drive the price down well into single figures imo & dyror

[bbbb] 08/8/2007 16:21

but the share price is not ahead of that, or maybe it's further ahead
and saying there may have been previous overhope.

[spaceparallax] 08/8/2007 16:16

Jon,

In brief said...
"Big cost savingsstarting to improve profitability despite disappointing sales growth, mainly due to NHS payment system changes and delays in growth of more lucrative higher margin private work. Figures have also been helped by a slowdown in capex and a reduction in debtor days.

Hence, FDT claim to be slicker. Sales growth is needed and FDT hope their eTeeth system will begin to generate sales.

FDT are the only quoted company in the Uk with a makt share > 5%. As competitors fare less well, they are inundated by acqn oppos.

In summary, FDT's rehab is proving a hard slog, but it's getting there.

[jonwig] 03/8/2007 12:30

Investors Chronicle apparently has a 'BUY' tip on these today:
= = = = =
The news is getting less painful at 1st Dental

New deals for NHS dentists have caused a lot of problems for 1st Dental but losses are falling
= = = = =

I can't read the rest, but a trip to the library might be worthwhile for holders.

[spaceparallax] 26/7/2007 12:00

Indeed they are still losing money and may not have made as much progress as we had been led to expect; however, the figures appear to show that the Business IS moving in the right direction.

I feel heartened that the outlook is improving and that we have a more efficient set-up. No doubt we'll have to wait a few weeks to see what the Market really thinks.

[pugugly] 26/7/2007 07:56

Re accounts. new FD has made a considerable difference but she could be up against a broken business model- still losing money.

Even if this business becomes profitable will have to improve significantly to justify even today's low valuation (imo & dyor)

[1ocnik] 28/6/2007 12:35

LOL...Laters fella happy hunting...;-)

[jonwig] 28/6/2007 12:34

Wot, me?

No - for a few weeks in 2005 (35p ===> 39p I think) when they were promising the earth (just for starters).

I dropped in after PUG asked me to look at his numbers.