First Property Share Discussion Threads

[stevegrass777] 19/2/2024 14:23

Another accumulation 22% position now.
Not far from the 30% takeover trigger really.
22% certainly gives him some clout voting wise.

[smithie6] 29/11/2023 17:36

Btw

AR for 2023
Directly owned properties,
Claimed market value =54 million €
PBT from lease income= 0.8 million € & this excludes profit from any one off sales.

If FPO tried to buy such a group of buildings & paid a yield from the PBT of 10% (too high phps but good for simplicity) then FPO would pay 8 million €.

8 million € is much lower than the claimed market value of 54 million € !!

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While for sure the selling price for a building only 30% full would not be based just on the income from that 30%, but a buyer would not base his buying price on it being 100% rented out since he doesn't know how long that might take to happen. And at what price. And he has to deduct from the value the summation of his annual losses until he gets enough occupancy to be at break even.
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The key question is how much is the Gdynia building "really" worth with ~70% of it being empty, loss making & the progress to rent out the remaining empty space being slow in the last 12 months. The occupancy is essentially the same as it was 1 year ago imo.

[smithie6] 27/11/2023 13:37

Continuation.....

And next 2 questions are quite logical imo

1) what is the real market value of a building ~70% empty & losing 70k€/year ?

2) ) what is the real market value of a building ~70% empty & losing 630k€/year ?

(Some might argue that the answer to question 2 is...zero !! even if the accounts claim it is X million !

How much discount would a buyer want versus the value if fully rented ?
50% ?
70% ?

There is probably a list of pension funds etc willing to buy a property if it is >90% rented out at say 8-10 X the annual nett profit.

But almost no one willing to buy a building that is losing 630k€/year !
A buyer needs deeps pockets to absorb those losses for W years. And a buyer is exposed to risk (if stays 70% empty then they wld suffer a big loss if they sold it). This means that the market value when 70% empty is much much lower than if 0-10% empty.

Is the valuation used by FPO real/fair/correct ?
(I need to dig more in the accounts but I think the valuation is probably/surely wrong).

[smithie6] 27/11/2023 11:10

RNS in April '23

"...
As a result, the net operating loss from the building should narrow to around EUR70,000 on an annualised basis. The net operating loss prior to the start of these two leases is around EUR275,000 on an annualised basis.

A further 10,388 m(2) of office space in the building remains to be leased. The service charge attributable to the currently vacant space amounts to some EUR670,000 per annum and should reduce to EUR630,000 per annum after the start of the two new leases referenced above. This cost is borne by the Group".

In April the operating loss for the building in Gdynia reduced to 70k€/year or to 630k€/year ??!!

[smithie6] 27/11/2023 10:39

Gdynia building

72% is EMPTY !!

From a recent RNS. 23rd Oct 2023.
"A further 9,980 m(2) of office space in the building remains to be leased, equating to around 72% of the total office space in the building. The Group is currently in negotiations with four prospective tenants over leases covering 1,265 m(2) of this space"

[smithie6] 27/11/2023 10:25

Baner
If you don't like the big options award, what about demanding a vote on it ?

And if the dirs don't agree to include that in the AGM agenda then you could call an EGM to do it.

(I would vote against as it is at the moment. Too big a %. And Habib owns a big % of the co. , that & his pay should be plenty of motivation imo).

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If Habib thinks he is so great why has he failed to rent out the empty space in the 2 main properties in Poland ?

[smithie6] 27/11/2023 10:17

Guywhite knight
"Few deals make the stellar returns already generated by Gdynia with more to come."

The Gdynia building is ~ 70% empty, & produces a yearly loss for FPO I think.

Can you justify why you wrote that "Gdynia...stellar returns"

The company data I see says you are wrong.

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The progress in renting out empty space in Gdynia & Blue Tower. In the last 12 months I don't see any overall change !! (Perhaps an RNS mentioned renting out 2% of the space, not significant at all imo)

No one wants to rent there ?!
The company is perhaps asking too high a price/m2 ?

Would a lower price be better ?

Fully rented out at price X would surely be better than X +30% & having 70% of a building EMPTY !!!

[kemche] 08/11/2023 09:14

Give that man another bonus I say.

[baner] 22/8/2023 13:59

what a messy company this is..........not easy to understand the value, nor the "strategy" - other than filling habib´s pockets what ever the performance.......

[stevegrass777] 11/7/2023 11:28

It seems now interest rates have gone up, lettings are going up probably as companies are preferring to let rather than buy.

[stevegrass777] 07/6/2023 08:07

RNS loans platform, it's hard to comment much on this until it starts to bring results in.
Obviously it sounds like FPO are bringing other investors in as well as ourselves so a shared risk approach sounds a good way to start,and they seem to have a conservative lending criteria.

[stevegrass777] 19/5/2023 08:57

Another buy RNS for Habib.

[stevegrass777] 12/5/2023 10:00

Are directors thrashing around buying shares so they get their own way on voting.
Scared that gyllenhammer will out vote them.

[baner] 12/5/2023 08:09

It is interesting to see that the directors are now buying shares in the market at a price 20% higher that the strike price at which the options were issued a month ago - and, hold your breath, there is a 10 year maturity on these options! What an absolute scandal this is.

[baner] 11/5/2023 07:52

Not ”difficultR21; to justify Steve - it is totally impossible to justify ! These shares were 50+ 6 years ago……230;…..the company would probably do much better if habib left for the politics 100%. However, it would be sad for the country, of course.

[stevegrass777] 10/5/2023 18:36

The property deals are ok, and obviously it depends on market conditions,but the options grab is hard to justify especially when you point at difficult market conditions as an excuse for under performance.
And don't tell me it didn't cost the company anything,as it cost us already suffering shareholders!!!
A massive % grab like that is difficult to justify White knight

[guywhite knight] 10/5/2023 13:49

You’d be best advised to learn a little about property, how properties are repositioned and market movements over the last 3 years before jumping in with both feet and revealing your idiocy.

Few deals make the stellar returns already generated by Gdynia with more to come.

Now toddle off and do some research before venturing another idiotic opinion.

[smithie6] 10/5/2023 13:41

The building in Gydnia is 72% empty.

What a brilliant purchase that was !!

[smithie6] 10/5/2023 13:37

if the management are so good why is the share price so low

& why have shareholders done so badly over recent years
60p in 2018 & only 27p now.
£10k invested then would now be worth <£5k !!!

while the boss has got richer via bonuses !!

[guywhite knight] 10/5/2023 13:21

You are aware the Gdynia property was bought by FPO with the debt in place? The company made a cash on cash return of 100% per annum on its investment for 6 years, depreciating the property all the while knowing the value would eventually be below the debt. It then renegotiated the debt level from a position of strength giving the company the opportunity to make a capital gain, while avoiding a wipe out for the bank. Sounds like damn good property and financial management.

[smithie6] 10/5/2023 12:42

last years "profit" only reflected a book profit from a hair cut that a polish bank had to accept as a result of habib´s bad management of the gdynia property. and for that he was paid a £1.35m bonus !!! horrible"

did the boss really get such a big bonus

for getting the share price down so low !!

nuts imo

[stevegrass777] 10/5/2023 10:44

With the director buys,I take it they are fighting for control of the company with Gyllenhammer.

[baner] 27/4/2023 19:14

still i guess Habib will be paid £1m+ of bonus for this transaction.........plus given
a further 8m options for nil consideration.........

[speedsgh] 27/4/2023 13:34

They are looking for £60m. Doesn't mean they will achieve that. Maybe not one of their best purchases?

[stevegrass777] 27/4/2023 13:24

Bought for 62.5 and sold for 60?