Orbis Share Discussion Threads

[paulsy1] 26/10/2008 23:24

I was wrong about this one!!!

Just cant get the staff!!!

Sorry

[sharw] 11/2/2008 21:42

I have just discovered this - strikes me as very underhand as far as the ordinary shareholders are concerned, although it had got to the point where if we didn't get shafted by the management then we would get shafted by the banks.

[aleman] 10/1/2008 13:23

Without knowing the latest from the operating company, it is hard to say what value there is for anyone. The market for securing empty houses is probably growing due to recession and technology for lone workers is probably doing well. Administration is not the same as receivership but does suggest the bankers and whoever buys the operating company want to leave nothing for shareholders. Tightening credit conditions may mean we have become a victim of lending parameters set on a computer in a remote office somewhere.

[richardbonny] 10/1/2008 12:17

8Trader - yes the banks will get the business on the cheap - but it won't cover what they lent by any means. However I am sure you are right, somebody will do very nicely out of it. Perhaps the current management are hoping to buy it from the administrators.

[sharw] 10/1/2008 12:13

Whatever the outcome, it was always going to be the ordinary shareholders who got shafted.

We don't know the debt structure vis-à-vis the various group companies. My suspicion is that only the holding company will go into admin. as the profits and cash generation of the operating subsidiaries are sound.

[8trader] 10/1/2008 11:46

Somebody is going to get a great business on the cheap Richard !

You can bet your bottom dollar the banks will be connected in
some way because as you say the interest was getting paid every year
and the business did generate good cash.

[richardbonny] 10/1/2008 10:56

Well we have lost our money. But I am surprised that the banks have pulled the plug as it means they will have to book an enormous loss. If they had allowed it to carry on it was at least paying interest and they could have carried their loans at full value in their accounts. (As they are doing with all the other worthless junk loans they hold such as CDOs).

[sharw] 07/1/2008 15:20

In theory the company's listing will be suspended on 17/3 but I suspect it will be sorted before then with little value, if any, for ordinary shareholders.

You have to remember that the banks are in control of this followed by management. The banks would have pulled the plug in July 2003 but for the fact that the company had net tangible assets of minus £46m. Ordinary shareholders were stiched up at the time - vote for the new arrangements or the company will go into admin. and you will have nothing.

You also have to remember that:

1) if there is an offer for the company the banks can convert their preference shares and existing shareholders will be left with 9.9% of the enlarged equity.

2) Management will be rewarded on a sale of the company. The latest figure we have for net debt is £59.2m at 31/3/07. The enterprise value of the company is this plus market value of shares - currently about £0.1m. If the company were sold for EV £59.3m management would receive £1.704m (£320k less in the event of a MBO).

With these two huge vested interests it is no wonder that both non-execs., with their duty to ordinary shareholders, have found themselves in an impossible position and resigned.

The only reason I did not get out of this one years ago is that, following an earlier spectacular crash in share price, my holding is worth less than the cost of dealing.

[wiganer] 17/12/2007 19:48

"In view of the absence of non-executive directors from the Board, KPMG Corporate
Finance has given notice to resign as the Company's Nominated Adviser in
accordance with the terms of its appointment. A further confirmatory
announcement will be made when this resignation becomes effective on 17th March
2008."

Delisting looming?

[8trader] 17/12/2007 19:11

And another one leaves.

[aleman] 11/12/2007 19:35

It doesn't look good when the board says there is unlikely to be value whether there is a sale or not and it coincides with a non-exec walking. As a relatively recent purchase, this was always a very speculative investment that was likely to lose everything but I don't feel happy if the non-exec is miffed about something. Still, I bought for the refinancing with the possibility of the trading company being sold before we got there and I can't see anything has actually changed so I'll stick around.

[kombimatec] 11/12/2007 17:13

What is the annoucement today?

[aleman] 04/12/2007 14:07

This is dragging on a bit. Surely they have some news. I wonder if they're getting any business from the boom in private sector repossessions.

[aleman] 01/11/2007 11:14

How is one to know?

[stromboli] 01/11/2007 07:53

Takeover talks going well????

[aleman] 05/10/2007 15:12

Couple of buys today for a change. Wonder when we'll get news.

[dangerous brian] 21/9/2007 14:59

Evo are the sellers and the reason the offer price has dropped so much today.

They are 2.25p and the next offer is 3p, does not mean the price will bounce.

[dangerous brian] 20/9/2007 17:43

Unlucky blackbear !

I put a friend in a penny stock many years ago, he bought 160k at 1.5p,
the stock actually did not move for almost a year, it stayed at 1-1.5p
all that time, he lost patience and sold for 1p despite my pleas to hold on,
two months later they were 40p !!!

[blackbear] 20/9/2007 17:30

LOL... ok why am i laughing, well i dont know either because i sold out at 1p yesterday after holding since 2004, you can't make this up LOL..

[dangerous brian] 20/9/2007 17:09

Yoda.

I can fully understand why somebody wants to buy this company.

If it was not for the debt and the large repayments of interest
this company would be profitable and have strong cash flow, the
cash flow is the one point that has kept Obs going all these years
under the weight of the debt.

I'm just guessing here but i reckon if the buyer pays 50 million for
it he gets a business that could make 4 million+ a year + the cash flow,
that would be a good deal.

Still dont think they will want to give anything extra to the shareholders,
when do they ever do that, at best maybe 4-5p but i think current price
or less.

All imho

[yoda5442] 20/9/2007 16:59

LOL @ etome

[etome] 20/9/2007 16:51

Whatever the outcome of talks, it would eventually require to go through shareholder consent. What is your ideal price then? 0p?

[yoda5442] 20/9/2007 16:46

Dangerous Brian - good point about buying debt.

in my opinion (very very humble) they seem to be saying they may sell the company, importantly they may sell it for as little as 0p (extereme i know but a definate possibilty in this case)

[aleman] 20/9/2007 16:24

I bought these in March and the drop since then has been on virtually no trades as there was a buyers strike. I'm not sure there would be much support for a bid unless it was at a premium to the prevailing level of the last year or two.

[spiritworld] 20/9/2007 16:08

Here we go, up up and away