Taliesin Pty Share Discussion Threads

[bandit99] 13/3/2018 10:13

The Posting Annoucement of 18/1/18 says UK holders would be offered a sterling option for payment in this takeover, did anybody get this offer? I certainly didn't via Selftrade, an in fact I got an incrediably lousy exchange rate of 1.167.

[cerrito] 20/12/2017 20:44

nw8156
A question I had as I am in the zeros but not the common shares. I see the zeros redeem Sept 30 2018
Please see the following from today's announcement
Taliesin has in issue zero dividend preference shares of no par value which are listed on the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange (the "ZDP Shares"). As further described in this announcement, upon the Acquisition becoming Effective, Taliesin is required under the Articles to initiate a process of offering an early repurchase of the ZDP Shares in accordance with the provisions set out in the Articles which the holders of the ZDP Shares may either accept or reject. Full details of the terms of the buyback offer and relevant documentation will be sent to holders of ZDP Shares following the Scheme becoming effective.

[mw8156] 20/12/2017 14:57

what happens to the zeros and how many are in issue?

[jeff h] 20/12/2017 12:07

I was looking forward to the 31/12/17 NAV to be announced in January...a fair bit
higher than the Euro 44.14 30/6/17 NAV I suspect.

Agree with posters here the take out price should be higher though I only paid
£11.60 a share when buying in so a good gain to bank and still hold PSDL.

[davebowler] 20/12/2017 11:25

You can always buy PSDL.

[riverman77] 20/12/2017 10:39

Very underwhelming, given that they were selling properties at a 70% uplift to book value I seem to recall. Surely could have got a much better price. Hopefully Phoenix Spree won't follow suit as I really want to keep exposure to this asset class and not aware of any alternatives.

[grabster] 20/12/2017 09:39

Sold all mine. I can't complain at having made an excellent gain. No point waiting for completion of the deal, during which time the price will flatline.

[gorilla36] 20/12/2017 08:50

Absolutely shafted here......will the directors walk away with a pile ?

[belgraviaboy] 20/12/2017 08:32

Could not agree more - totally under whelmed

[hiddendepths] 20/12/2017 08:24

Boring. I want the investment, not stupid cash and a modest profit.

Did they have to sell us out?

[edwardt] 06/12/2017 08:40

'property prices should not be trading at or around replacement cos; that makes no sense'. love that quote from our man. i guess the thing is will someone buy our portfolio as a ready made solution rather than build new property. i would hope so. they can have mine at a 30% premium to quoted nav!

[jeff h] 17/11/2017 09:50

Courtesy of davebowler:-

[grabster] 11/8/2017 11:01

Posted By DaveBowler on the PSDL thread today - but obviously relates also to Taliesin:






Liberum;
Phoenix Spree Deutschland (Mkt Cap £275m)
Positive read-across from Deutsche Wohnen's H1 results

Event
Deutsche Wohnen has reported positive results for the period to June 2017. Deutsche Wohnen is a German residential property company with a €17 billion portfolio of which 77% (115,492 units) is located in Berlin.

Highlights of today's interim results include:

5.6% revaluation uplift for the overall portfolio in H1 2017 including an 8.3% increase in the average value per sqm of the Berlin assets.
Like-for-like rental growth of 3.6% in 12 months to June 2017. Management have increased guidance for rental growth in 2017 to 5% (previously 3.5%) partly due to higher than anticipated growth in the Berlin rent table (Mietspiegel). .
New letting rents have grown much faster than regulated in-place rents which has significantly increased the rent potential.
Deutsche Wohnen has also highlighted the widening spread between in-place and market-rent multiples which suggests further potential for NAV growth. New letting rents continue to outpace growth for in-place rents.


Liberum view
Deutsche Wohnen's results illustrate several trends that are occurring in the Berlin residential market as the supply demand imbalance has widened. There is no sign of a reversal as new construction remains relatively low partly as a result of asset values being below replacement cost. Completions are approximately 50% of the required 20,000 units pa. Phoenix Spree trades on a 1.3% premium to our estimate of the June 2017 NAV and we regard it as attractive given the favourable fundamentals and prospect of long-term NAV growth.

[edwardt] 04/7/2017 08:32

still a discount to value realised on sale no doubt...

[belgraviaboy] 04/7/2017 07:51

TPF up to 3070 Euros psf

[edwardt] 03/7/2017 11:47

suspect it is differing neighbourhoods and marks those with more sitting tenants. I do think tpd is a better vintage and certainly is better placed in terms of a sale...

[riverman77] 30/6/2017 17:33

Good point about 2700 v 1950 psf valuation discrepancy, but I note they are both valued by the same agent, so possibly the tpf properties are of a slightly higher quality and justify higher psf valuation.

[belgraviaboy] 30/6/2017 16:52

As an aside - I hold an equal weighting of both

[belgraviaboy] 30/6/2017 16:51

One thing to look at is the how the NAV has been calculated. On a quick scan it looks like TPF is valued at 2,700 euros psf, where as PSDL is 1,950. Obviously not comparing exactly the same things etc. but it may explain why PSDL 'appears' more expensive relative to NAV.

[riverman77] 29/6/2017 22:52

I have switched to tpf - I still like psdl but the gap between them doesn't seem justified. Also, reading more closely through the annual reports, tpf appears to have more of a clear intent to eventually privatise all the properties (which seems to be where the big nav uplifts arise) with permissions in place for 85%, whereas psdl suggests this will be done more selectively. So potentially tpf could be holding a more attractive portfolio of properties, although hard to be sure.

[edwardt] 29/6/2017 16:32

i would suspect that is a good move but I am biased being long tpf!

[tidcombe] 23/6/2017 23:26

Liberum wrote PSDL was on a 2% premium and TPF on 16% premium in April. Since that time PSDL has risen nearly 25% and TPF is more or less the same. I can't see any reason for the NAV of PSDL to have risen much more than TFP in the last 2 months, IMO that implies that TPF is now better value on a NAV comparison, and I have topped up my holding in TPF rather than more PSDL shares. I am still confident that property in the large German cities is a good long term investment.

[edwardt] 20/6/2017 16:14

phoenix spree has left this behind of late. anyone know why??

[davebowler] 27/4/2017 10:07

Liberum;
re. Phoenix Spree Deutschland (Mkt Cap £218m)
22% NAV return in 2016

Event
Phoenix Spree has generated a 22.3% NAV total return in 2016 with the EPRA NAV at 31 December 2016 of €2.73 per share. NAV performance has been driven by a strong letting performance and yield shift across the portfolio.

As previously announced, the portfolio valuation at 31 December 2016 was €423.8m which reflects a like-for-like increase of 19% over the year. This compares to a figure of 8.1% (our calculation) in 2015. Berlin was the strongest performing region in the portfolio with an uplift of 24% followed by Nuremberg and Furth (+12%) and Central and North Germany (+10%).

The fully occupied gross yield on the portfolio has tightened by c.90bps in 2016 to 4.8% (2015: 5.7%) although this is not strictly like-for-like, as part of the yield movement is due to acquisitions. The portfolio value per sqm is now €1,965 (€2,320 in Berlin) which remains well below replacement cost.

Rent per sqm rose by 5.3% across the portfolio on a like-for-like basis (Berlin +6.1%, Nuremberg and Furth +7.5% and Central and North Germany +4.4%). New lettings were signed at an average premium of 30.6% to passing rents and 36.8% in Berlin. Portfolio vacancy is at an all-time low of 2.6% after adjusting for units undergoing refurbishment.

The company has increased the focus on the high-growth Berlin market through acquisitions and a recent €35m disposal of the Nuremberg and Furth assets at an 11% premium to NAV. Berlin now accounts for 82% of the portfolio. €78m of new assets were agreed at an average value of €1,888 per sqm. The assets acquired during 2016 have been revalued upwards by 15% at December, more than offsetting the transaction costs. The average price achieved on condominium sales was €3,874 per sqm (67% ahead of current Berlin portfolio value).

Net LTV at 31 December 2016 was 39.4% (2015: 42.8%) and this should increase slightly as new acquisitions are likely to be funded with debt.

The company has also announced a final dividend of €0.043 per share (3.7p). Total declared dividends for the year are €0.063 (5.3p) which is 9% ahead of last year.

Liberum view
This is another excellent set of results from Phoenix Spree with the company's NAV coming in 9% ahead of our forecasts at the time of the interim results in September. The company's strategy of avoiding portfolio transactions and acquiring assets on a piecemeal basis is paying off given the attractive purchase price that has been achieved. The success of condominium sales at Boxhagenerstrasse is evidence of this with initial sales achieving €4,110 per sqm (59% ahead of July 2015 acquisition price).

The average price of the portfolio remains well below estimates of replacement cost. The company's Berlin assets are valued at €2,320 per sqm which is c.27% below replacement cost of €3,200 per sqm (including land). Replacement cost is being driven up by rising construction costs and scarcity of land. The market for single apartments (condominiums) remains very strong which is helping to drive demand for multi-family apartment blocks.


Phoenix Spree trades on a 2% premium to NAV compared to 16% for Taliesin and 8% for the listed German property companies. We believe that the opportunity remains compelling with the outlook for future returns supported by a highly reversionary portfolio and favourable demographic drivers.