Ecofin Water&powr Opportunities Share Discussion Threads

[praipus] 04/11/2016 08:51

Ok, ditto, Praipus.

[asmodeus] 04/11/2016 07:22

Sorry praipus, I am not going to spend any more time on this. i've done my best to help you. Asmo.

[praipus] 03/11/2016 22:15

Hmmm........ in law the tax point, is "usually" when you make or receive a payment or receive/deliver goods. You've surrendered your ECWO shares and received EGL and EFR shares I assume.

Or are you on the dissenters register?

[asmodeus] 03/11/2016 18:23

But you didn't buy egl or erf on 26th October praius. You bought them, in effect, when you bought ECOW ! That is why you have to do the calculation. The NAV has nothing to do with calculating what you PAiD for the shares, and it is that figure that the IR, You, or anybody else needs to know in order to calculate your profit, or loss. Surely this is basic common sense?

[praipus] 03/11/2016 15:11

I can see why a tax man would accept the Calculation Date EFR and EGL NAV's as the buy price.

If you wanted or needed to you could exit now and crystalise a tax loss which might be useful to offset any gain on ECWO.

[asmodeus] 03/11/2016 14:44

The risk is that you believe the NAV has anything to do with what you paid for the shares.

[praipus] 03/11/2016 14:01

What are the risks of using a net asset value?

[asmodeus] 03/11/2016 12:12

And I look forward to learning from you, or anybody else, the method of calculating the buying prices you, or they, are going to state for tax purposes, or any other, for EGL and EFR. And, I repeat. for the last time the buying prices - not the Net Asset Values, at the date of the reconstruction.

[praipus] 03/11/2016 10:54

Asmodeus,
Sorry you feel that way, and hope the conviction of being right and or humility will give you the strength in time to post an easy to follow explanation. If your troubles are elsewhere I hope things go smoothly for you.
Praipus.

[asmodeus] 02/11/2016 22:18

I give up Praius. Bye.

[praipus] 02/11/2016 21:32

Suspect the brokers have made a mistake. Looking at your 686 I recon theyve used market prices rather than NAV.

[asmodeus] 02/11/2016 21:11

Praius have YOu got it! We are not concerned with the NAVs. We just want to know what we have paid. But, as a matter of interest, i thought the calculation should just be as follows, using the proportions you rightly mention. Supposing I had 100 ECO shares, and they cost me £100. These became 100 egl and 25 efr - i.e. 125 shares. So each of those 125 shares cost me £100 divided by 125. So my 25 efr shares cost me 25 x 100/125 i.e. £20 and the 100 egl cost me £80. Therefore one would think it quite simple that to work out my buying prices, my EGL cost me 80 % of what I paid for ECO, and the EFR cost 20%. But, as I have said earlier, this is not what my Broker says. Lets see if anyone comes up with the calculation on the other threads. Presumably you and I are the only people following this one....

[praipus] 02/11/2016 20:50

Have you got your cost of EGL and EFR now?

[asmodeus] 02/11/2016 20:40

No, praius. What i am ignoring is the NAV, though, because all I needed to establish was the effective cost to me of each EGL and each EFR share - not the NAVs.

[praipus] 02/11/2016 20:03

Asmodeus are you ignoring the fractional entitlement if so why?

Each ECWO share entitles you to 22.4758p NAV of an EFR share. Therefore you need 4 ECWO shares to give you one EFR share.

Using your % factoring: If ECWO NAV at calculation date = 100%
Approx 85.77661% of ECWO NAV = 1 x EGL share
Approx 14.2239% of ECWO NAV = 1/4 of an EFR share

[asmodeus] 02/11/2016 18:05

Assuming that you are taking 158.02 as your buying price, praipus, your figures say that you have bought EGL for 85.776% of this, and EFR for 56.316%, which I don't think is possible.But perhaps you are still talking about the NAVs, which is a different matter?

[praipus] 02/11/2016 16:13

From a tax perspective: why not treat the whole exercise as three seperate trades?
Trade 1.
Entry: EWCO buy price.
Exit: ECWO/EWPO NAV at calculation date = 158.02p

Trade 2
Entry: EGL = 135.5442p

Trade 3
Entry: EFR* = 22.4758p* per old ECWO held (*x4 for 1 EFR) = 89.99032p

[asmodeus] 02/11/2016 15:09

Yes you do, Praipus, but, for some reason I can't yet explain, just working out the proportion of that price that applies to each share does not seem to work out. You have to apply a "factor" or percentage figure, and, according to my Broker, and in my own case at leas, that is my EGL cost me 91.87% 0f what I paid for ECWO and 8.13% for EFR. But I didn't take any cash. How it works out for those who did, I don't know. I will try posting on the EGL and EFR threads to see if anyone else has been given the figures.

[praipus] 02/11/2016 13:12

Ok, so why can't you use your ECWO buy price?

[asmodeus] 28/10/2016 23:33

Yes, you probably could, Praipus - but first you still have to ascertain what you paid for them...

[praipus] 28/10/2016 16:59

From:


"Summary

The net asset value of Ecofin Water & Power Opportunities plc (the "Company" or "EWPO") was 158.02p per EWPO Share on the Calculation Date, comprising 135.5442p in respect of the liquid assets to form Ecofin Global Utilities & Infrastructure Trust plc ("Ecofin Global") and fund the Cash Exit, and 22.4758p in respect of the illiquid assets to form EF Realisation Company Limited ("EF Realisation")."

Could you use "Calculation Date" as your profit calculation date?

[asmodeus] 27/10/2016 18:44

I hadn't seen it Praipus, but my (quick) reading of it seems only to tell us the value of the shares at the reconstruction - not how you arrive at the cost prices. However, I think my 686 above provide the answer.

The following is the reply from Ecofin:

Hi. We’re working on getting some guidance on this issue for shareholders – we think we have a good idea of how the re-allocation of book costs should work but we are not in a position to give tax advice so would like the lawyers involved in the reconstruction to give/approve any guidance. I’ll be back in touch as soon as we have this.
Kind regards,
Elspeth

I have updated my 686 as a result.

It is surprising how difficult for everybody, it seems,to work this out!

[praipus] 27/10/2016 12:17

Just in case you havent seen it already. Allocation of Assets and Reclassification of Shares:

[asmodeus] 27/10/2016 11:09

I'm awaiting a reply from ECOFIN, but, in the meantime, have ascertained from elsewhere that the effective buying prices, for my holding, anyway, are 91.87% of the cost of my Ecofin for EGL and 8.13% of it for EFR. So I guess this means that the "factors" would be 0.9187 for EGL and 0.0813 for EFR. And presumably this is the same for everybody - if correct? But I am not a tax lawyer, and not qualified to give advice, so please do your own research - and let us know your own findings! Important P.S. - it's just occurred to me that the above figures would, indeed, I think, be incorrect for those taking cash in addition to shares. Clearly we still need professional advice on this.

[asmodeus] 27/10/2016 10:42

It's a question of calculating the effective buying prices for the two shares into which a Company has switched. So, for example, if you paid Xp per share for Ecofin and it splits 1 for 1 into EGL and 1 for 4 into EFR what is your buying price for each of those? Yes, apart from anything else, you must surely need this for capital-gains calculations - or simply to see whether you are making a profit or loss. Anyway, I will try contacting the Company, as suggested, and let you know what they say.